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  1. #11
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petamocto View Post
    There already is a perfect AR optic, by the way, it's called a Trijicon ACOG.
    It's multi-use but far from perfect. Lots of complaints from the real world users about shitty eye relief, reticle washing out, fixed magnification, etc... You look up guys running G3G and in CQB stages a 1x red dot or holo is much faster.

    With current technology it's always going to be a compromise. We want crystal clear red dots in a package as small and light as iron sights yet magnification ability of a scope. The Spectre DR is kind of like a red dot built into a 1-4x scope but it's massive, bulky and expensive as all hell.


    The best multi-use objective on the market right now is probably the schmidt & bender short dot. An actual compact 1-8x scope that is also a red dot, captures the most light, best fov, etc... The capability to go to 8x then back down to no magnification with equal FOV of an ACOG is a distinct advantage. It's also much lighter in weight then any of the Elcan offerings. The catch? It's $3000+

  2. #12
    Senior Member Petamocto's Avatar
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    Eye relief is mitigated by them having three core models that all have different eye relief, not to mention how adjustable anything is on a rail.

    A red dot is fine for inside 100, but puts the shooter at too much of a disadvantage past that. You cite CQB matches for red dots, but I'll cite the entire Army of North America that has decided a 3-4x optic is the best general purpose way to go.

    I am not saying the ACOG is perfect, but IMO it is definitely the best all-around choice a person can make.

  3. #13
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    I just went to the range today actually. Running carry handle irons with large aperture I can pretty much go from high ready and hit a 75% ISPC metal human silhouette at 150 yards as fast as I can at 50. The range caps out at 200 and even at that yet now with small aperture you can engage and get center of mass hits with no magnification.

    Red dots do not put you at a disadvantage nearly as early as you think.


    The best all around purchase a person could make is to learn the fundamentals and spend money on ammo. You'd be surprised at how many guys I see with $3000 guns that can't shoot. They simply show up to the range talk to a few guys and make noise for half an hour mindlessly shooting a 300 round group on a sight in target at 50 yards.


    I've had the chance to use both U.S. Optics 1-4x and the ACOG RCO model. A 1-4 power scope is much more capable once you get the feel for it. If you have enough money something like the S&B Short dot which is a 1-8x is going to blow the ACOG out of the water. The Army uses it doesn't really mean as much as you'd think. The army would probably rather have a one size fits all type device instead of having some guys run red dots and others run scopes. They'd probably rather not have to teach everyone millirads and all the fussing around with a scope yet still give them the capability of a magnified optic.
    Last edited by Booletsnotreactwell; 02-11-2015 at 10:39 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member hercster's Avatar
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    You don't see many of them but I like my Leupold HAMR 4x with the Delta Point riding on top at 1x. I use the whole of the Delta at close fast range and the apex when I need to be more accurate at short range. I zero the Delta Point for 30 yards. Beyond 30-40 I drop to the HAMR which is very bright and has a great reticle. I rarely go beyond 200 yards and so zero the HAMR at 50-200 yards. The eye relief is better than the ACOG and the combination of the two optics while it takes a little learning works very well in the games I play. The only downside is that the set up puts me into the Open class.

    NightHawkCustom Pred II 45, NHC .22 upper, Stag Arms AR 15, Rem. Versa Max Tactical 12 Ga. Tanfoglio Ltd Custom Xtreme, an upgraded Tanfo Ltd Pro, Seraphim 1911 .45 ACP Archangel, Seraphim 9mm Warfighter, SIG P320 FS in 9mm with a .40 conversion and now a SIG P226 Enhanced Elite 9mm.

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  6. #16
    Senior Member harbl_the_cat's Avatar
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    This is a great post, trying to figure out what optic to run on my SA20, although it sets me off on another topic I'll start in General...

  7. #17
    Senior Member
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    So many optics, so little money...

  8. The Following 4 Users Like This Post By shootemup604

    bettercallsaul (02-12-2015), Neil Burke (03-20-2015), rooivalk (06-04-2016), superbad (02-13-2015)

  9. #18
    Senior Member Kane63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootemup604 View Post
    So many optics, so little money...
    That's why I'm still running irons on everything.
    Go Pig or Go Home

  10. The Following 2 Users Like This Post By Kane63

    JustBen (02-14-2015), lone-wolf (02-14-2015)

  11. #19
    Senior Member bettercallsaul's Avatar
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    I like the idea of having a true 1x red dot with 3x and 9x magnifications built in. Just one big honkin knob to go from 1x to 3x to 9x. Super simple, super rugged. Leave it to a company with government contracts to charge up the wazoo.

    I wonder if the Canadian Forces have any interest in this scope.

    I've read some criticism about the weight: 2.2lbs. This seems spot on average with most high end glass w/ a high end cantilever QD mount.

    FWIW, the scope looks damned cool, much like all other Elcan optics.

  12. #20
    Senior Member bettercallsaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TV-PressPass View Post
    You all saw the D-EVO right?
    ???

    Edit: I just looked it up. It's pretty cool. I had not heard of it. Not sure how I'd like a giant tumor hanging off the side of my rifle, but I'd love to try one.

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