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  1. #181
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    Yes and the next logical step would be wilderness protection carry.


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  2. #182
    Senior Member oilman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada_Phil View Post
    Its a club with SECURITY Card access for one.

    And ALL current "new" club members require a mandatory probationary period as well as passing several probationary shoots to PROVE competence. And it doesn't matter WHO you are. Even cop's and military go through the probationary safety training and shoots.

    NO exceptions.... Seriously!

    Oh... And new members also need to be accepted by a majority of members at next monthly Club meeting!

    This is the REALITY in My part of Ontario.
    That's crazy you have to go through all of that just to get a membership to a shooting range. I just paid my 50 bucks got some directions to the range, a list of rules and the combination for the lock on the gate. Sounds like it is hard for new shooters to join a club put there if they are new to the area or do not know any other menbers.

  3. The Following 4 Users Like This Post By oilman28

    Doug_M (06-20-2015), Edward Teach (06-21-2015), Gaidheal (06-19-2015), Rory McCanuck (06-20-2015)

  4. #183
    Senior Member Gaidheal's Avatar
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    Yeah - club I belong to is the same. Pay dues, go shoot. FTW (and CFOs)

  5. The Following User Liked This Post By Gaidheal

    Edward Teach (06-21-2015)

  6. #184
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awndray View Post
    An ATT doesn't give you permission to go to just any range and shoot your restricted firearms as you please. It simple means you're allowed transport your firearms between approved locations. If a range is club-owned and/or operated, you need permission from that club to shoot there. An ATT isn't a shoot-at-any-range card.
    Except with the old system, since the club has to apply for your ATT you pretty much HAD to be a member of a range to get an ATT. In other provinces plenty of people are clubless and hold ATTs and simply shoot at the ranges of their liking. So if it's a for profit range or club with day pass system you could soot at anyone of them and if you didn't like it you could vote with your wallet. That just wasn't possible here and I believe clubs used that fact to get away with stupid rules, you had to comply and it wasn't easy to simply leave and try somewhere else so in the end almost every club was doing it that way as a sort of loyalty program to retain membership.

    The new ATT system could very well be a shoot at any range card on ranges that allow pay to shoot/day passes since they don't have you by the balls anymore. Ranges with stupid rules that suck won't hold a pool of huge membership of guys who simply want an ATT, they'll go under thus forcing change.
    Last edited by Booletsnotreactwell; 06-20-2015 at 07:45 AM.

  7. #185
    Senior Member 3MTA3's Avatar
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    If membership in clubs were to decrease, I don't think that would be a good thing, Certainly fewer ranges won't result in lower fees and increased opportunities.
    What are the rules that you finding so stupid?
    "So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot.." - George Orwell
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the younger
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  8. #186
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3MTA3 View Post
    If membership in clubs were to decrease, I don't think that would be a good thing, Certainly fewer ranges won't result in lower fees and increased opportunities.
    What are the rules that you finding so stupid?
    Well I think it's extortion to be charging anywhere from $100 to $200 for a RPAL do over which is what my "club safety course" was, I also remember the monetary figure being somewhere around those two numbers I just said. I also remember the dates being really inconvenient, every month on the first Wednesday or something at 6pm. Even if you worked banker hours (which I did at the time) it's impossible to get across the city to any given point for 6pm. We had guys on night shifts do the course who had to stay up for like 24 hours, then sleep 3-4 before working again because of how impossible it was to attend. Not to mention the courses are usually backlogged as hell.

    The probationary shoots, I had to show up at various inconvenient times and sit around for 2-3 hours after spending 1-2 hours getting to the range (traffic due to time probationary shoots were scheduled). So you sit around for hours waiting for 12-20 guys to demonstrate various shooting practices with .22LR pistols TWELVE TIMES. Each time you would receive a proof signature and the max was three a week. So I did mine as fast as I could and it still took over a month.

    Considering other ranges in this country, you get a walk around tour, pay your dues and go shoot it's ridiculous. Even ONE probationary shoot to make sure you're not a total idiot wouldn't be that bad but twelve is too much.


    Now I did that years ago, so what rules do I find stupid now?

    No steel case ammo. Some serious old school types run the club. They believe that steel case ammo is synonymous with steel CORE ammo. I was shooting Hornady steel match which is a steel case with a standard copper over lead bullet, it's actually match ammo. I got threatened to be thrown out of the club because it apparently "blows the shit out of the concrete". I did have a magnet handy and proved that it wasn't steel core and that didn't do much, the mere sight of a steel case means it's steel core armor piercing. Plenty of training ammo in plenty of calibers come with steel cases today, it's not just Russian surplus steel core SKS ammo that does. Other members have pointed this out and the answer that came of it was that "if a magnet sticks, you're done".

    Except I also have steel case ammo that a magnet does stick to the bullet. It's bi-metal jacket, so it's a copper jacket mixed with some bi-metal to save costs. It's steel case ammo which the bullet has like 15% "metal" in it. It's various pot metals some of which are probably less hard than traditional copper, you cut it open with a hacksaw it's a standard lead core. This type of ammo has and does get people permanently banned yet it isn't any more armor piercing in reality than normal ammo. In fact I have brass case lead bullet varmint loads that push 4000ft/s that penetrate MORE steel then M855 ammo which actually does have a steel penetrator in it. Yes fast as hell varmint loads can "blow the shit out of the concrete" more than dedicated ammo made for piercing hard targets.

    I'm tempted to buy ballistics gel, shoot tests and bring it to the monthly meetings but I don't. Why? Because I already know I'll be sitting across a bunch of fuds who won't even know what they're looking at and not give two craps anyway. They'll tell me to take my fancy tests and go home, rules stay.


    Holster courses are stupid, they run like one course every three months, which is backlogged into next year and also at extremely inconvenient times. I actually booked into one and then got told they overbooked so I had to come back in six months, when? Unknown time. Yea I don't plan my life around "unknown". That one I've given up on, I simply take the right to use a holster. I'm waiting for the day somebody catches me with it on when I'm not using it so I can kindly point that unless they saw me using it, it says nowhere you can't have one and wear it.

    Can't shoot a restricted rifle on the "rifle" range. Mostly it's an elitist clause because they don't want the black rifle guys shooting with the "hunting rifle" guys.

    Despite all of that, my range is one of ranges in Ontario with the least stupid rules which is sad. Most ranges I've seen or heard of ARE MUCH worse. Silverdale killed a huge chunk of it's dedicated membership with it's stupid sky baffles. Plenty of ranges use sky baffles yet they aren't done as shitty as Silverdale did them. Silverdale you are basically forced to bench shoot now.

    Memberships won't decrease, they'll simply go to ranges that don't have stupid rules Some guy somewhere will either open a range or change his to one where you pay money, and get to shoot and do anything that isn't illegal. I'll drive twice as far and pay twice as much yearly for a membership to whatever that place will be. With the new ATT system you'll be able to know before you buy. Which brings up another thing, plenty of clubs "disguise" how restrictive they are until you pay your money, then all the rules come out.
    Last edited by Booletsnotreactwell; 06-20-2015 at 08:26 AM.

  9. #187
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    Ah yes, the infamous "holster course". Yes, our range has that silly thing too. As if one needs a course to learn how to bolster and unholster a pistol lol!!


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  10. #188
    Senior Member 3MTA3's Avatar
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    Well sounds like there is some silliness there I guess, and that fee is very high- my club is $50, (but the cash is needed and we provide Lunch), but I would have to hear the other side- in my experience there are usually some reasons- not saying that is so in your case.
    As far as the holster course, well I don't know - I have been to several, and at the last, there was a person with "lots of experience", yet had to be warned several times for not using the decocker on his SIG, despite having owned the pistol for a considerable time.
    "So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot.." - George Orwell
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the younger
    FTrudeau

  11. #189
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    I believe the other side is somebody bought some ultra rare tracer ammo for $1 a shot and used it at the range and it set fires, to which the guy simply let burn and went home. Also I believe somebody actually got genuine Russian 7.62x54R armor piercing ammo and blew huge holes into all the club owned AR500 targets. They never figured out who did it and all that was left behind was steel casings, I figure that's where that rule came from.
    Last edited by Booletsnotreactwell; 06-21-2015 at 08:45 AM.

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