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  1. #11
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maple Leaf Pilgrim View Post
    Agreed, although I have heard that there is minor variances in optics as temperature changes due to contraction/expansion of material, a 4MOA POI shift does seem a bit extreme. One has to wonder what exactly is going on in the sighting unit. If anybody has a better idea of the technical specifications of the units it might give us a better understanding as to what's going on in there.

    -S.
    I don't know much about holographic sights I do know more than the average person about lasers which are the core of the holographic sight design. Lasers are inherently more fragile than the comparable LED technology used in red dot sights. Laser diodes are A LOT more sensitive to temperature variations, some wavelengths of light (what you see as colors) don't have diodes (bulb of that color in laymans terms) so they require the appropriate crystals and have infrared light pumped through it. These crystals are fragile and are especially vulnerable to temperature variances, in fact they can't really have their rated output until they warm up to operating temperature which depending on outside ambient temperatures may never happen. I would almost assume that EOTech sights use red lasers so they don't require crystals (diode pumped solid state frequency) and rule that theory out but with lasers and holograms there are a million and one things happening vs a red dot which is basically a red light shinning on a lens of glass at a particular angle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug_M View Post
    Just in time for Trijicon's MRO ( https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/produ...ct1.php?id=MRO ) which is said to be more like an EOTech due to its large field of view rather than an Aimpoint Micro.
    It's not really comparable, they might seem that way because to the end user as all these types of sights are basically magic looking glasses with red reticles but Holographic sights are A LOT different than red dots. If tomorrow all the kinks were worked out with Holo sights they would blow the doors off any red dots, I thought the technology was there but it appears it might not be. So yea in that sense red dots are a good alternative now, but Trijicon isn't really "competing" if you ask me, it's a different product that just happens to have similar end results (when it works).

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMcC View Post
    Seems like yes the optic POI will shift +/- 4MOA. But even if the optic was perfect. Too many other factors like you said how the ammo performs.

    The main issue is possibly permanent thermal shift which means the zero doesn't return even when ambient temperatures do. Scenario, you leave your rifle in your car on a hot summer day, it gets to 120 inside the trunk (very possible), now when you use the gun it's 3-4 MOA off, that's a pretty substantial difference and problem if it is true.
    Last edited by Booletsnotreactwell; 10-03-2015 at 03:50 PM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Steveo9mm's Avatar
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    EOTech sights shit the bed [TFB]
    Reread #3

    http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/show...les-amp-Policy
    MΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  3. #13
    Senior Member Gaidheal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edenchef View Post
    Question? How did these sights manage to get through military qualification/field trials without these problems showing up? Somehow, I think this issue is much, much bigger than just not meeting published specs/manuals?
    Maybe they're made by VW?

  4. #14
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMcC View Post
    No rifle or weapon will shoot the same in -40 as +50.
    True but rifle nor ammo make no claim about its operating conditions?

  5. #15
    Member awndray's Avatar
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    As seen on Facebook:

    Back in early December of 2015, I heard about the US government suing Eotech for fraud. Well, I decided to contact Eotech about the issue and they told me to send back my Eotech sight for a full refund. Today, 22/02/2016, I got that refund. I didn't have to send them a receipt of the purchase price. The Eotech crew are very honourable people and if you decide to send yours back you WILL get your refund, just be patient as it took me 2 months to get mine.



    Here is the case:

    http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/24...eotech-sights/
    https://www.facebook.com/marcnfa/posts/813743775420564

  6. #16
    Senior Member bettercallsaul's Avatar
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    Not the optic I'd want in a Canadian winter.

  7. #17
    Senior Member TDC's Avatar
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    Old news. Cheques have been received as far as back as 10 days ago. Dump your garbage optics folks and start again..

    TDC

  8. #18
    The Gunsmithing Moderator blacksmithden's Avatar
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    I can tell you this from personal experience. A 20 degree temperature change and corresponding air density change can make a huge difference in impact points.....I love sighting in my scope DURING a match...NOT. Live and learn.
    GOC moderator
    Dealer/co-founder/co-owner of Tundra Supply Ltd.
    www.tundrasupply.ca
    The High River Gun Grab - NEVER FORGET !!!!
    Feb 26 2014 - Swiss Arms prohibition and ordered confiscation by the RCMP - NEVER FORGET !!!!!

  9. #19
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Andray & Blacksmithden, or anyone

    So what are you using instead of Eotech?
    (e.g. Aimpoint Comp M4S, Elcan SpecterOS3.4x )

    The latest Eotech's they're talking about 1 to 5MOA.
    The Aimpoint Comp M4S advertises as 2MOA, Aimpoint Micro H-1 as 4 MOA.

    Quote Originally Posted by eotech
    Will the HWS hold zero as temperature changes?

    EOTech’s sights experience a point of impact shift away from the point of aim when the sight is exposed to a temperature different from the temperature at which the sight was zeroed. After zeroing the sight at or near ambient temperature (73°F), the zero position will shift during operating temperature changes. The sight has the potential to shift approximately +/- 5 Minutes of Angle (“MOA”) at -40°F and 122°F. Due to thermal drift, the sight may not return to zero. The sights have the potential of approximately a +/- 2 MOA zero shift upon return to ambient (73°F) after being exposed to any temperature between -40°F and 122°F.

    This shift results from natural thermal expansion or contraction that is present in various materials as they are heated or cooled, and is greater the more extreme the temperature change. For example, when a sight is zeroed at 70˚ F then acclimated to 50˚ F, less shift will occur. On the other hand, if zeroed at 70˚ F, then acclimated to 0˚ F, more shift occurs. The shift may not be significant to shooters who use their sights at close-quarters ranges. For instance, 5 MOA is a shift of 1.25 inches at 25 yards, and is 5 inches at 100 yards. It also is worth noting that thermal effects are evidenced to varying degrees in common optics, as well as in rifle barrels and ammunition as the environmental conditions change. In all events, to achieve optimum accuracy, the sight zero should be verified whenever the sight is exposed to marked temperature changes, and the sight should be re-zeroed as necessary. For more information on this issue, please click here.

    Does the HWS have parallax?

    All optics experience varying degrees of parallax depending on use and operating conditions. Parallax is an apparent change in the point of aim resulting from a change in the position of the shooter. EOTech’s sights have little parallax when the reticle is in the center of the viewing window, which is the optimum sighting position and also is the correct place for zeroing the sight. On the other hand, if the user is looking through the sight at the outer edge of the sight window – an off-axis view – the parallax error might be up to 4±3 MOA (or a total of 14 MOA across the viewing window) at 71˚ F (for a sight properly zeroed). In other words, parallax can increase as the user’s view approaches the edge of the EOTech viewing window. To put this possible amount of off-axis error into perspective, 7 MOA equates to 1.75 inches at 25 yards or 7 inches at 100 yards. Viewing through the center of the window achieves the least parallax error. Parallax may increase as temperature changes from 71˚ F. At operating temperature extremes of -40˚ F or 122˚ F, there may be an additional 4 MOA of parallax. For more information on this issue, please click here.

    http://www.eotechinc.com/hws-service-and-support/faq
    Last edited by RangeBob; 02-22-2016 at 09:22 PM.

  10. #20
    Senior Member bettercallsaul's Avatar
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    On the plus side, anyone who's into 3-gun or even Airsoft might be able to get some discount optics. I wouldn't trust Eotech for serious applications anymore, but for fun & games they should still be just fine.

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