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  1. #1
    Canadian ForcesMember Billythreefeathers's Avatar
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    Canadians likely to have second thoughts on assisted suicide

    Canadians likely to have second thoughts on assisted suicide: Toronto archbishop

    http://globalnews.ca/news/2560580/ca...to-archbishop/

    TORONTO – The Archbishop of Toronto says he doesn’t think Canadians have put enough thought into medically assisted dying – and when they eventually do, they’ll realize it’s a bad idea.

    Cardinal Thomas Collins weighed into the debate on assisted dying today, reading a statement on the church’s position at Sunday mass, while a written or videotaped version was presented to more than 200 Catholic churches across the Archdiocese of Toronto.


    In his sermon, Collins said people are being “dazzled by sweet words”, but that assisted death is “most destructive to the human person, destructive to our society, our community.”

    Collins told reporters outside the church that he thinks “people have not thought much about this,” and once they think more deeply about it, they’re likely to have second thoughts.

    After the service, parishioners voiced differing opinions on doctor-assisted death and Collins’ statement.

    “I think that it is the best thing that can happen to people who are sick and there is no hope to make them better,” Maria Nella Espinal said.

    “The church thinks it shouldn’t be done that way, but as a human being I think that is the best thing that can happen.”
    Asked how she reconciles her opinion with that of the church, Nella Espinal said, “we are human beings and we have a mind of our own.”

    “I think it’s completely wrong,” said another parishioner. “It’s a very big violation of the rights to life. As a christian and a catholic, no one has the right to take life. It’s not only sinful, it’s even evil to take it upon yourself to take life.”

    Laws surrounding assisted dying are currently in a state of limbo, as the Supreme Court of Canada has given the federal government until June to bring in new legislation. As it stands, Canadians who want an assisted death need permission from a Superior Court.

    The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario has prepared with an interim guide for medically-assisted death, in case such permission is granted.

    Their guide says that a physician can’t be compelled to perform assisted death, but that they must offer their patient with an “effective referral” to a doctor who is willing offer it.

    In his sermon, Collins said that for those doctors, effective referrals are a “violation of conscience”. He added that forcing Catholic doctors to refer patients to doctors who will perform assisted suicide is tantamount to religious discrimination.

    The college said in a written statement that it doesn’t accept that argument. Spokeswoman Kathryn Clarke said a referral “does not foreshadow or guarantee” that the assisted death will be performed.

    A parliamentary committee has recommended that terminally ill Canadians should be able to seek medical help to die with few obstacles and that the mentally ill should not be excluded and that eventually “mature minors” should be included.

    Collins expressed opposition to those findings as well as allowing people suffering from conditions like dementia to pre-schedule the date of their death.

    He urged church members to contact their member of Parliament to expressed their concerns about how the new law is being drafted. The Supreme Court ruled last year that Canada’s ban on assisted suicide violates the right to life, liberty and security of the person.
    CSSA

  2. #2
    Canadian ForcesMember Billythreefeathers's Avatar
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    this will be a consensus issue,,

    but my question or point is why does it fall on the shoulders of the medical profession to deliver the fatal blow?

    there are and will be doctors willing to do this, but why should it be a doctor? If you want to die so bad and your situation so dire, then you take the courts prescription to the pharmacy get your bottle of poison, go home and drink it.

    can't get to the pharmacy,, I'm sure a family member will make the trip for you.
    CSSA

  3. #3
    Senior Member Zinilin's Avatar
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    They need to re-instate the job of Government Executioner.
    A six month college course should be sufficient training.
    An opposition member should put this forward as an amendment.

    People who have taken a oath to 'First do no harm' must not be forced to recant their oath.
    Last edited by Zinilin; 03-06-2016 at 04:29 PM.

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  5. #4
    Go Canucks Go! lone-wolf's Avatar
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    If doctors are fine turning off people's life support when they(the patient) have no say against, a patient saying do it shouldn't bother them much.
    the wild still lingered in him and the wolf in him merely slept

    Aptet aut mori

  6. #5
    The Gunsmithing Moderator blacksmithden's Avatar
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    I bet the cardinal will change his tune if he's every laying on a bed dying...body riddled with cancer...such excruciating pain that even massive doses of morphine aren't dulling it. The church is thousands of years old....so are stone knives.....but I don't see anyone changing their mind, wanting to go back to using them. I make no apologies. I hate the church for preaching that you must suffer through whatever, right to the bitter end, because it's God's will.
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  7. #6
    Token Female Moderator Candychikita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinilin View Post
    They need to re-instate the job of Government Executioner.
    A six month college course should be sufficient training.
    An opposition member should put this forward as an amendment.

    People who have taken a oath to 'First do no harm' must not be forced to recant their oath.
    Hmm. Long term affects on a normal human being (read: empathetic) would probably not be good if this is their profession. If their job is to turn off the lights on people, they would have to create some sort of coping mechanism to protect their sanity, which could severely damage their ability to function in society. Even guys who go off to war, fully knowing they are fighting bad guys and/or fighting for their own safety, end up with PTSD. Not only that, I don't think society would embrace The Executioners in their midst, further isolating them from humanity.

    There are sicko killers in the world with no empathy though - that might actually be an ideal job for them.

  8. #7
    Pirate King Edward Teach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacksmithden View Post
    I bet the cardinal will change his tune if he's every laying on a bed dying...body riddled with cancer...such excruciating pain that even massive doses of morphine aren't dulling it. The church is thousands of years old....so are stone knives.....but I don't see anyone changing their mind, wanting to go back to using them. I make no apologies. I hate the church for preaching that you must suffer through whatever, right to the bitter end, because it's God's will.
    I'm not so sure. For some people life itself is inestimably more valuable than personal comfort or convenience.
    I watched my mother die of cancer and guess what? I'm against assisted dying. Partly for the above reason and partly because having the same agency that oversees our state mandated health care system making this decision scares the hell out of me.
    Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin command here.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Foxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candychikita View Post
    Hmm. Long term affects on a normal human being (read: empathetic) would probably not be good if this is their profession. If their job is to turn off the lights on people, they would have to create some sort of coping mechanism to protect their sanity, which could severely damage their ability to function in society. Even guys who go off to war, fully knowing they are fighting bad guys and/or fighting for their own safety, end up with PTSD. Not only that, I don't think society would embrace The Executioners in their midst, further isolating them from humanity.

    There are sicko killers in the world with no empathy though - that might actually be an ideal job for them.
    I think you'll find it's not the sicko killers doing this work. This is no different than funeral directors, or those who treat the terminally ill or aged already. Your client is either dead (and everyone's sad) or is about to die in the near future (and everyone's sad). My mom used to go to all the funerals of the old people who died under her care, and with old people ALL your patients are going to die in the not too distant future.

    Sure - sometimes it's tough. But what gets you thru is the knowledge that they were going to die anyway, and what you did is make their passing easier, more dignified and less painful for the family. I mean, it's not like your job is just to go around whacking anybody at random or the like. Your job is to provide those who are going to die with the tools to make their own decisions about how it's going to happen and to do so with dignity at a time and place of their choosing.

    I mean - i'm pretty sure you don't think nurses who care for the terminally ill, or undertakers or whatever are 'sicko's'. They deal with exactly the same things. You can't stop the deaths, you can only make them easier and less painful for the families (well. a little less.).

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    People that would us this opportunity are not scared of dying, rather living with the pain.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Foxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Teach View Post
    I'm not so sure. For some people life itself is inestimably more valuable than personal comfort or convenience.
    I watched my mother die of cancer and guess what? I'm against assisted dying. Partly for the above reason and partly because having the same agency that oversees our state mandated health care system making this decision scares the hell out of me.
    They don't get to make the decision. I don't know why people keep coming back to this - it's utter nonsense right up there with 'people who buy guns want to kill'.

    The patient will make the decision and ONLY the patient. The doctors are there to VETO the decision in the event they feel the patient is not making a sound judgement. The doctors can only decide to ALLOW the patient to make that decision OR determine the patient is NOT able to make that decision, they cannot actually make the decision.

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