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  1. #1
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    Hunting effects on conservation: facts

    So as every hunter knows, done correctly hunting can be a benefit for wildlife and not harm it. I'm in university and I thought I would write an essay on the topic with proper sources. I was successful, and I thought I would share the findings here so you all have some more ammo for conflicts with Bambi lovers
    1. Deer hunting improves recovery of logged forests, even when numbers aren't drastically reduced, as it changes their behaviour to avoid open areas.
    2. (Everyone is likely aware of this one) our hunting fees are used to manage forests and parks as well as help maintain the very wildlife we hunt. Hunters are also the first to report problems in the environment.
    3. This one is a mixed bag: trophy hunting of large animals is actually detrimental with regular open seasons (animals with the best genes are shot and can't reproduce), but when hunting younger animals, hunters tend to pick the smaller specimens (with a worse genes). This lets the healthier animals survive to reproduce with less competition. The species studied in this report was moose.

    Of course there are many more but these are all based off of legitimate studies I found.

    If there is enough interest I can upload the paper I wrote.

  2. The Following 3 Users Like This Post By Falcon

    Relic49 (06-03-2016), Rory McCanuck (06-02-2016), webster (06-03-2016)

  3. #2
    Senior Member Petamocto's Avatar
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    Thank you for also posting findings that disagree with the thesis. That is the sign of a truly objective mind searching for the truth and not an excuse to justify your opinion.

    I wish you the best of luck in your higher learning experience. On a person note, my degree is in military arts and sciences, but my favourite subjects in hindsight were astronomy (science credit) and political philosophy.

    Enjoy your journey, and smell the roses before you're old and fat.
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    Falcon (06-03-2016)

  5. #3
    Senior Member Foxer's Avatar
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    3. This one is a mixed bag: trophy hunting of large animals is actually detrimental with regular open seasons (animals with the best genes are shot and can't reproduce), but when hunting younger animals, hunters tend to pick the smaller specimens (with a worse genes). This lets the healthier animals survive to reproduce with less competition. The species studied in this report was moose.
    Mmmmm.... i dunno, i think i'd have to see your math on that one.

    "Big specimens" don't get big overnight and will have reproduced several times already before they got to 'trophey size'. More importantly, you're assuming that size alone determines what makes a specimen's gene's "good", and I'd question that. '

    Large bulls also horde the females denying younger (and therefore smaller) bulls the ability to breed, and that has a negative effect on biodiversity. Removing a large dominant male from the equation helps promote genetic diversity and 'makes room' for younger bulls and promotes competition amongst them.

    I keep an open mind, but like i said i'd have to see how you got to that conclusion - it does not jive with my experiences.

  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxer View Post
    Mmmmm.... i dunno, i think i'd have to see your math on that one.

    "Big specimens" don't get big overnight and will have reproduced several times already before they got to 'trophey size'. More importantly, you're assuming that size alone determines what makes a specimen's gene's "good", and I'd question that. '

    Large bulls also horde the females denying younger (and therefore smaller) bulls the ability to breed, and that has a negative effect on biodiversity. Removing a large dominant male from the equation helps promote genetic diversity and 'makes room' for younger bulls and promotes competition amongst them.

    I keep an open mind, but like i said i'd have to see how you got to that conclusion - it does not jive with my experiences.

    You mean like Uber and big oligopolies held by a few corporations?

  7. #5
    Senior Member Foxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemachine69 View Post
    You mean like Uber and big oligopolies held by a few corporations?
    ROFLMAO - well, i'll admit i've never really considered comparing and contrasting moose population biodynamics to corporate economic modeling, but... now that you mention it, yeah kind of just like that

  8. #6
    Senior Member Petamocto's Avatar
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    Foxer, the dominant male issue is obviously complex, and there are enough factors involved that it's not as simple as "Yes we should kill trophy males" or "No we should not kill trophy males".

    Have they probably already don't a lot of breeding? Yes. But clearly their genes are great at survival for whatever reason, so who is to say we shouldn't keep letting them breed?

    Then there's the obvious point of there being a tipping point when they are so massive and mature that they're probably going to get weak and die soon naturally, and then it would be a waste to have the thing just fall over and be taken by coyotes.

    What's the magic age for this? I don't know, 6? 7? Generally hunters won't know, they'll just see a massive buck.

    If we just go after "normal" 8 point bucks then who is to say that we're not getting one that may turn into a monster later in life, but it's still only a "maybe". A big buck has proven for whatever reason to be successful.

    Not really a form-friendly topic to discuss, though, more of a drinks around a fire at hunt camp kind of thing.
    Donít order from Wolverine Supplies. PM me for details.

  9. #7
    Senior Member TheCenturion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petamocto View Post
    Foxer, the dominant male issue is obviously complex, and there are enough factors involved that it's not as simple as "Yes we should kill trophy males" or "No we should not kill trophy males".

    Have they probably already don't a lot of breeding? Yes. But clearly their genes are great at survival for whatever reason, so who is to say we shouldn't keep letting them breed?

    Then there's the obvious point of there being a tipping point when they are so massive and mature that they're probably going to get weak and die soon naturally, and then it would be a waste to have the thing just fall over and be taken by coyotes.

    What's the magic age for this? I don't know, 6? 7? Generally hunters won't know, they'll just see a massive buck.

    If we just go after "normal" 8 point bucks then who is to say that we're not getting one that may turn into a monster later in life, but it's still only a "maybe". A big buck has proven for whatever reason to be successful.

    Not really a form-friendly topic to discuss, though, more of a drinks around a fire at hunt camp kind of thing.
    Hmmm. How about this:

    If big bucks are being shot more often than scrawny ones, that implies that scrawny bucks wind up having mating opportunities that they otherwise wouldn't have.

    If this happens enough, 'not desirable for humans to shoot at' becomes an advantage, and those are the genes that get selected for.

  10. #8
    Senior Member Foxer's Avatar
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    Not really a form-friendly topic to discuss, though, more of a drinks around a fire at hunt camp kind of thing.
    Yeah - as you say, complex.

  11. #9
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    There are a few types of trophy hunting.
    Most of this thread seems to be talking about the pursuit of antlers, which I'll call unregulated.
    African managed game reserves by way of counter example would be regulated, in the sense that the government permits are issued to take identified old lions that no longer breed and no longer are capable of hunting wild game but are now desperate enough due to being feeble that they go after human children and corralled livestock for food.

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petamocto View Post
    Foxer, the dominant male issue is obviously complex, and there are enough factors involved that it's not as simple as "Yes we should kill trophy males" or "No we should not kill trophy males".

    Have they probably already don't a lot of breeding? Yes. But clearly their genes are great at survival for whatever reason, so who is to say we shouldn't keep letting them breed?

    Then there's the obvious point of there being a tipping point when they are so massive and mature that they're probably going to get weak and die soon naturally, and then it would be a waste to have the thing just fall over and be taken by coyotes.

    What's the magic age for this? I don't know, 6? 7? Generally hunters won't know, they'll just see a massive buck.

    If we just go after "normal" 8 point bucks then who is to say that we're not getting one that may turn into a monster later in life, but it's still only a "maybe". A big buck has proven for whatever reason to be successful.

    Not really a form-friendly topic to discuss, though, more of a drinks around a fire at hunt camp kind of thing.
    Thank you for explaining. It is a fairly general statement to say all large moose are superior, but typically the largest bulls are the strongest and win more mating opportunities.

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