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  1. #71
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    So what brands are failing?

    And they can still be commercially sold, correct?

    I think I'd like the minimalist version, and if cheap enough, help spread the opposition to this tweak through numbers.

  2. #72
    Shotgun, rifle and a 4 wheel drive! BrotherRockeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swampdonkey View Post
    I'm well past the post count, and still not qualified by any means.
    I had to get an explanation myself...I was guessing that's what this meant:

    Quote Originally Posted by SIR VEYOR
    And more particularly to this site, hit the post button enough, and JACKPOT!! GOC coin can fall out!!

    ...and that will be my last post to the coin/post count sidetrack nonsense...
    We're kin cuz we shoot! What we shoot, and what we shoot at, shouldn't matter!

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  3. #73
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    I've literally been saying this for years regarding this exact topic; that I'm surprised the AR15 was never prohibited for being "too close" to FA or that the government passed legislation requiring specially modded AR15's for the Canadian market. It does look like the cows are coming home on this issue now.

    Make no mistake, I don't support this but I knew this was gonna happen at some point. The AR15 out of all semi-autos is probably the easiest to convert to a fully functional SF gun.

    One of the reasons is this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Suputin View Post
    All the FA parts except the auto sear are entirely legal to install. Only the auto sear, which is prohibited by name, is illegal to install. However to install a conventional auto sear requires drilling the lower which is something easily observed. The fly in the ointment, and the only obvious thing this proposed solution could affect is a drop in autonsear. One has to wonder how many DIAS. the RCs are coming across that they feel the need to change the rules for everyone?

    There's probably thousands of dewats in this country that still have all the magic parts ready for harvesting or even blowback airsofts albeit with the parts made from crappier materials. All that stuff could be dropped in by any idiot no machining required or simply ordered internationally. Canada doesn't have "Constructive Possession" laws around MG parts like they do in the United-States. Combined with the fact that almost every AR15 ships with the FA carrier for simplicity's sake and some off brand AR15 receivers don't fill in the gap at the back of the receiver/have a "low shelf" you could literally make an AR15 that's only one hole drilled away from a fully functional actual copy of a select fire M16/M4.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Doug_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booletsnotreactwell View Post
    The AR15 out of all semi-autos is probably the easiest to convert to a fully functional SF gun.
    If you believe that then you've never paper-slipped a FAL.
    Pew pew pew

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  6. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booletsnotreactwell View Post
    I've literally been saying this for years regarding this exact topic; that I'm surprised the AR15 was never prohibited for being "too close" to FA or that the government passed legislation requiring specially modded AR15's for the Canadian market. It does look like the cows are coming home on this issue now.

    Make no mistake, I don't support this but I knew this was gonna happen at some point. The AR15 out of all semi-autos is probably the easiest to convert to a fully functional SF gun.

    One of the reasons is this...




    There's probably thousands of dewats in this country that still have all the magic parts ready for harvesting or even blowback airsofts albeit with the parts made from crappier materials. All that stuff could be dropped in by any idiot no machining required or simply ordered internationally. Canada doesn't have "Constructive Possession" laws around MG parts like they do in the United-States. Combined with the fact that almost every AR15 ships with the FA carrier for simplicity's sake and some off brand AR15 receivers don't fill in the gap at the back of the receiver/have a "low shelf" you could literally make an AR15 that's only one hole drilled away from a fully functional actual copy of a select fire M16/M4.
    You clearly have never actually done the work you are blathering on about. I have and it's not nearly so easy as you think. Sure it's possible to bubba the pocket but to do it properly requires a decent milling machine. The location of the auto sear hole is actually fairly critical. I ran into a lower that wouldn't run properly because the auto sear pin wasn't in the right place. That screws up the timing, which means the thing doesn't work.

    The auto sear hole is a dead giveaway that the lower has been modded. To circumvent the need to drill the hole requires making a DIAS, which puts you back to needing a decent milling machine, the DIAS drawings and the skills to make the part. None of which fits in with the concept of "quick and easy".

    There are loads of guns that are easier to convert or even make. I would suggest that a lever action rifle is just as easy to convert to FA as an AR15. Hiram Maxim did just that back in the 1800's.

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  8. #76
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    First of all I don't know why you're saying that the auto sear pin hole is a dead giveaway, nobody's arguing that and it's not really relevant to the discussion regarding the ease of converting the firearm. As for using a DIAS, that's a U.S. commercial market thing that would be equally illegal here. Nobody trying to make an illegal conversion would even bother with one as it's probably easier to go about doing the conversion the "proper" way instead of the DIAS route so you don't need to make your own drop in module device which as you said is relatively complex.

    Secondly, as for milling the pockets, still don't know why you're mentioning the complexity of milling the lower as in my post I specifically stated that one would be using a lower with the correct dimensions/clearances already. The type the RCMP is talking about thus milling the space in the lower is a non-issue in the context I was speaking of. For arguments sake, I know these lowers are rare but even with the more commonly available ones, some lowers only have a little bit of extra material on the side wall of one side to prevent the install of the sear, all one would need to do is file away that material and mirror the other side which is already of the correct dimension.


    Now as for the actual conversion/hole drilling...

    Yea you're right I've never done it but that doesn't change the fact that I don't think it's really that hard at all. The blueprints with all the schematics as to where to drill the hole are publicly available all over the internet.


    With the auto trigger pack and the selector flipped to "auto" the hammer will follow the bolt home, so you're already 90% there without having machined anything. The sears only job is to time the event, delay the hammers fall enough so that it doesn't lose all the inertia following the bolt home and can still hit the firing pin with enough force.

    The timing of the event is done by the engagement of the the sear with the hammer and the release by the rear of the carrier. Even without the blueprints as to where to drill the hole you could literally just engage the parts correctly and see where the hole for the pin in the sear falls naturally, this would get you pretty close as to the proper location of where to drill the hole.

    There's obviously massive leeway in the timing of the sear to allow for FA fire. The DIAS is proof of that as it's a simple module that drops in and fits with varying degrees of tight/looseness that generally works. While they sometimes do need adjustments/shimming or what have you they do typically "drop-in" as per their name.


    The timing issue isn't really that complex. The event that allows FA basically happens too early without the sear, if anything to err on the side of caution you could just position everything on the latter side. You have more leeway in a slower timing than one that's too advanced, the critical aspect of timing is to make sure the hammer is engaged when the rear of the carrier makes a pass to trip the sear.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doug_M View Post
    If you believe that then you've never paper-slipped a FAL.
    I'm sure there's plenty of stupid simple ways to jimmy rig all sorts of guns to fire "auto", what I mean by ease of conversion is actually converting the thing properly to select fire in the way it was originally designed to fire between semi and auto. In my opinion the AR15 is one of the easiest in that regard.


    Now on to something else... I noticed the document keeps mentioning the whole "shelf height" as an "international standard". It's obviously not an international standard if you can buy a lower with the pockets/shelf height already milled down, let alone as U.S. ATF standard since whatever AR15 lowers were talking about likely come from the US.

    IIRC the only thing that makes a lower in the U.S. considered a machine gun is the presence of the third hole for the sear. Possession of the FA FCG without the hole is considered constructive possession of an MG. Nothing about "shelf height" though.
    Last edited by Booletsnotreactwell; 05-02-2017 at 12:19 AM.

  9. #77
    Senior Member Mark-II's Avatar
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    IS posession of the parts illegal here?

    A well known vendor has and may still be selling an M-16 LPK. I don't know what all the bits look like, but there are bits in the picture that I didn't have in my AR-15 LPK.
    Schrödinger's Gat - The logical paradox which posits that a firearm, stored safe in the home, is at the same time On The Streets

  10. #78
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark-II View Post
    IS posession of the parts illegal here?

    A well known vendor has and may still be selling an M-16 LPK. I don't know what all the bits look like, but there are bits in the picture that I didn't have in my AR-15 LPK.
    I've seen those too, some of them even sell it with the auto sear itself with the pin AND even the freaken M16 ordnance drawing blueprints.

    Honestly it's a grey area if you ask me, not worth it.


    Prohibited devices
    General

    43. A prohibited device is:

    (a) any component or part of a weapon, or any accessory for use with a weapon that is prescribed to be a prohibited device (e.g. any device designed for the purpose of discharging cartridges in rapid succession, bull-pup stocks, etc.);

    Now the M16 LPK by itself can't do that, however it has little use other than to work with a firearm designed for "discharging cartridges in rapid succession". So that's open to interpretation. The auto-sear would be that device however it wouldn't work until you drilled the firearm accordingly and installed it with the M16 LPK.

  11. #79
    Canadian Forceswww.specterarms.ca Specter Arms's Avatar
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    When it comes to drilling the auto sear pin, there are many commercial jigs. The simplest and smallest one I have seen fits into the selector hole and provides a steel guide for your drill bit.

    The AR-15 is (in my opinion) the third easiest Canadian available rifle to convert to full auto.

    You can bet they learned from the Swiss Arms fiasco when they took too large of a bite and everyone fought back. But the whole AR-15 standard is just another tiny cut in the "death of a thousand cuts". In the end, this change will not effect a lot of people so gun owners will simply accept it... and then the next cut will come.
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  13. #80
    Member JdgDReDD's Avatar
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    One of the first things the Nazis did was disarm the German citizens.

    point made

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