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  1. #81
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JdgDReDD View Post
    One of the first things the Nazis did was disarm the German citizens.
    It's more accurate to say

    The German government before Hitler was the Weimar Republic. The Weimar Republic passed a law requiring the registration of firearms, along with the promise they'd never confiscate them.

    Hitler used that registry, and ordered the police and the brownshirts to confiscate the firearms of those he didn't approve of, especially members of rival political organizations. Hitler also passed a law making it easier for his political friends (such as card carrying members of the Nazi party) to get more firearms and do more hunting with them.

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangeBob View Post
    It's more accurate to say
    Hitler used that registry, and ordered the police and the brownshirts to confiscate the firearms of members of rival political organizations. Hitler also passed a law making it easier for his political friends (such as card carrying members of the Nazi party) to get more firearms and do more hunting with them.
    Would that be the Kellie Leitch party Trudeau was talking about?

  4. #83
    Senior Member killer kane's Avatar
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    Nope, that'd be clown persecutors, pedo snitches, judges, politicians like the lil potato, being allowed to carry while we get to be vilified and have our property stolen by our own brand of brown shirts.
    Green is the new Red

  5. #84
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    hahaha...sorry, I can only laugh in grim cynicism at the situation here.

    This is why so-called sensible laws must always be opposed through every legal channel as they are a farce and just a trojan horse that always leads to prohibition or mass bans. Really it's no different than any other tenet of liberalism in that it is never, ever enough for the advocates of these policies whether with guns or spending or free speech.

    It used to be easy to think this couldn't happen in the US but now watching California and other states, at best we find ourselves in a situation where we fight a rearguard delaying action just to keep what little rights we have and forestall the inevitable.

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  7. #85
    Shotgun, rifle and a 4 wheel drive! BrotherRockeye's Avatar
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    We have no "rights"
    We have "privileges"

    That is the root of the entire problem.

    From getting a road through the middle of your home 1/4 to losing your iron at the stroke of a pen.
    Any privilege that is granted can be rescinded.
    Rights are harder to take away, which is why we don't have any...it's all part of the plan.
    We're kin cuz we shoot! What we shoot, and what we shoot at, shouldn't matter!

    "The worst an honest man can do is make an honest mistake" ~ Augustus McCrae
    There is no Justice...SUNRAY Lives

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  9. #86
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    Being an American (and Canadian), I can say I may have rights south of the border but in fact anyone who has even paid a cursory glance at what is happening with terrifying speed with gun laws should know that the "shall not be abridged" portion of the second amendment has been run roughshod at best and largely destroyed at worst.

    I always tell my friends who love to say 'it can't happen here' to look around and see what's happening with attacks on the 2nd amendment all over, even in so-called gun-friendly states. Despite having a carry permit from one of the states with the most reciprocity, I'm constantly navigating a labyrinth of encroachment and rules that gut these rights. I won't even get started on the catastrophe that is california and others emulating it like illinois, new york, and others.

    So despite having rights, I strongly suspect my dear 'merica is headed where Canada is now. And frankly, whether here or in the US, all it will take is another shooting by a lunatic or a kid shooting themselves thanks to an irresponsible parent/adult, to justify the latest gun control bill. Truly, anything and everything will be used as an excuse to punish those that behave responsibly as always, in the name of the greater good. It isn't just at the federal level as states and local governments constantly eek away until you look around and realize 27 things you always did and grew up with are now outlawed.

    In the span of a little over 100 years they've normalized incomes taxes, the NFA, gun registrations, and up here as well as some states, licensing, while giving themselves unprecedented powers to spy, harass, and detain us.

    The truth is these privileges or rights or whatever we call them are sometimes not worth the paper they were printed on when those with the power decide otherwise since they are the ones defining what's the greater good and no, the republicans or trump, etc aren't going to save us from any of it. Nobody can except, well, ourselves.
    Last edited by Elle308; 05-08-2017 at 07:39 PM.

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  11. #87
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    Just as a point of update, I've recently been educated that there was a Supreme Court decision finding essentially that "easily convertible to full auto" equals "an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger". I will research this further as time permits, but if true we need to challenge that.

  12. #88
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IJ22 View Post
    Just as a point of update, I've recently been educated that there was a Supreme Court decision finding essentially that "easily convertible to full auto"
    Might be this

    R. v. Hasselwander, [1993] 2 S.C.R. 398
    supreme court of canada
    Firearm easily convertible from semi-automatic to fully automatic -- Whether firearm a "prohibited weapon" -- Meaning of word "capable" in para. (c) of definition of "prohibited weapon" in s. 84(1) of Criminal Code
    http://scc.lexum.org/decisia-scc-csc.../1007/index.do

    Hasselwander continues to cause lots of trouble, and is referenced in several other supreme court cases.
    For example in R. v. Cancade
    https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcca/do...11bcca105.html

    Purposive approach favoured over restrictive one in cartridge magazine interpretation

    April 27, 2011

    In R. v. Cancade, 2011 BCCA 105 the accused ordered seven magazine casings from a U.S. mail order supplier for delivery to a Canadian mailing adress. When he attempted to pick them up he was arrested. The magazine casings, sometimes referred to as shells or containers, had a 30-round capacity but did not have an internal spring, a bottom plate, or a follower plate, all parts that would be needed to be installed in order to make the casings functional as magazines. Cancade, knowledgeable in weapons, intended to make alterations to the casings so they would comply with Canadian law, which required a casing to have a maximum five (5) round capacity.


    In R. v. Cancade, 2011 BCCA 105 the accused ordered seven magazine casings from a U.S. mail order supplier for delivery to a Canadian mailing adress. When he attempted to pick them up he was arrested.

    The magazine casings, sometimes referred to as shells or containers, had a 30-round capacity but did not have an internal spring, a bottom plate, or a follower plate, all parts that would be needed to be installed in order to make the casings functional as magazines. Cancade, knowledgeable in weapons, intended to make alterations to the casings so they would comply with Canadian law, which required a casing to have a maximum five (5) round capacity.

    At trial in British Columbia Provincial Court Cancade argued the casings were only components which could become either prohibited or lawful devices. Since the casings were simply the outside of a magazine, the objects seized were not operable and did not fall within the definition of a cartridge magazine.

    The Crown, on the other hand, submitted that the items as imported met the definition of a prohibited device, were capable with the addition of readily available parts of becoming operable, and had not been altered before importation to comply with the regulations. The trial judge ruled that the imported items fell within the definition of cartridge magazine contained in s.84 of the Criminal Code. In her view, the definition of cartridge magazine included the shell, or container, though not completely assembled into a functional magazine.

    “The fact that these casings were not immediately capable of feeding ammunition into a firing chamber without the addition of several parts is immaterial,” she said. “The modification required to make these shells functional was, by all accounts, simply the addition of three readily available and easily installed parts.” Cancade was convicted of importing and possessing a prohibited device.

    He then appealed, again submitting that the casings were not prohibited under s.84.

    Cancade took a strict interpretive approach. In his view, an object which has the future capacity, with alternation, but no present capacity to feed ammunition into the firing chamber of a firearm was not a “cartridge magazine” in law. He submitted that by comparing the French and English versions of the relevant weapons legislation it was clear that the verb used in the French version was present tense, meaning the magazine needed present capacity. He suggested the trial judge erred when she found the word “may” in the English version spoke not only to a present capacity but also a future capacity.

    The Crown, however, contended that the French version of the definition could encompass a future ability of the device to be rendered easily serviceable to feed bullets into a firearm. In the Crown’s view, a purposive approach to construing the legislation was needed, taking into account the intent of Parliament to keep dangerous high capacity weapons out of public circulation.

    Justice Hall, writing for the unanimous British Columbia Court of Appeal, rejected Cancade’s interpretive approach supportive of the rule of strict construction of the relevant provisions. Instead, he adopted a purposive approach to this legislative provision.

    “In construing this legislation having regard to the intention of Parliament to severely restrict the availability of high capacity weapons and their appurtenances,” said Hall. The trial judge did not err in finding Cancade in possession of a prohibited cartridge magazine and guilty of ss.91(2), 92(2) and 104(1)(a) offences under the Criminal Code. Cancade’s appeal was dismissed.

    https://www.blueline.ca/articles/pur...interpretation
    Last edited by RangeBob; 05-13-2017 at 10:00 AM.

  13. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle308 View Post
    Being an American (and Canadian), I can say I may have rights south of the border but in fact anyone who has even paid a cursory glance at what is happening with terrifying speed with gun laws should know that the "shall not be abridged" portion of the second amendment has been run roughshod at best and largely destroyed at worst.

    I always tell my friends who love to say 'it can't happen here' to look around and see what's happening with attacks on the 2nd amendment all over, even in so-called gun-friendly states. Despite having a carry permit from one of the states with the most reciprocity, I'm constantly navigating a labyrinth of encroachment and rules that gut these rights. I won't even get started on the catastrophe that is california and others emulating it like illinois, new york, and others.

    So despite having rights, I strongly suspect my dear 'merica is headed where Canada is now. And frankly, whether here or in the US, all it will take is another shooting by a lunatic or a kid shooting themselves thanks to an irresponsible parent/adult, to justify the latest gun control bill. Truly, anything and everything will be used as an excuse to punish those that behave responsibly as always, in the name of the greater good. It isn't just at the federal level as states and local governments constantly eek away until you look around and realize 27 things you always did and grew up with are now outlawed.

    In the span of a little over 100 years they've normalized incomes taxes, the NFA, gun registrations, and up here as well as some states, licensing, while giving themselves unprecedented powers to spy, harass, and detain us.

    The truth is these privileges or rights or whatever we call them are sometimes not worth the paper they were printed on when those with the power decide otherwise since they are the ones defining what's the greater good and no, the republicans or trump, etc aren't going to save us from any of it. Nobody can except, well, ourselves.
    This, is among the most realistic and finest posts I have ever read in some 13 years on gun forums. The agenda has been obvious since the days of the Nazi-loving Kennedy gang in the USA, but, most people here just refuse to see the facts and tend to believe types like Harper and so the gun elimination goes on............

  14. #90
    Senior Member LB303's Avatar
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    ^^^ even before the Kennedy administration. I just stumbled across this today, see page 8
    http://gunsmagazine.com/1958issues/G0358.pdf

    ...The realities are that firearms records give much comfort to the book-keeping personalities in government and law enforcement work, but are functionally of little use in most cases involving criminal uses of firearms.
    Guns employed by professional crooks are not registered to them.
    Factory records, although in some cases quite complete, show only the jobber to whom shipped, nothing more.
    Elements which make a conviction in any case, including those involving firearms, are far more concrete than the shadowy record of gun shipments which lead to a blind wall.
    The concept of firearms records for crime detection, while theoretically neat, in practice lacks merit...
    Some things just never change
    Last edited by LB303; 05-22-2017 at 01:02 PM.

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