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  1. #1
    Senior Member CLW .45's Avatar
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    Note to Canada’s Firearms Organizations

    Are we pro-gun?

    Am I pro-gun?

    The correct answer when answering for myself, and who am I to answer for others, I am pro-rights.

    You have a right to life.

    You have a right to property.

    You have a right to speak freely.

    You have a right to keep and bear arms.

    As a pro-rights individual I advocate for your rights.

    Your right to defend the lives of your loved ones.

    Your right to own and use your property.

    Your right to speak truth to power.

    Your right to go armed for the defence of your loved ones, your neighbours, your nation.

    As a member I am the gun lobby.

    As such I will never ask you to give up your guns, your devices, your ammo, your uses, or your aspirations - in the vain hope that I will maintain my own. That would be a vile betrayal of my fellows.

    Some have, on virtually every forum, demanded that you abandon your property and aspirations to protect theirs. Because theirs is good, and mainstream, while yours is controversial, and beyond the pale. Vile indeed.

    Shall we all get together and tell Ralph Goodale, as I did this evening, to either step up and ban everything - or stop this unending war on us?
    To show that men can travel to the moon and return, use the American experience.

    To show that public safety isn’t hurt by responsible individuals carrying to protect life, use the American experience.

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  3. #2
    Member MetisWolf's Avatar
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    You have a right to keep and bear arms.
    Your right to go armed for the defence of your loved ones, your neighbours, your nation.
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    MetisWolf

    Part Wolf, Part Metis - All Gun Owner and Canadian

  4. #3
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    You have a right to keep and bear arms.
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    Probably correct, at least in practice.

    The Supreme Court Of Canada said we have no enumerated right to keep and bear arms.
    R. v. Wiles 2005
    That's correct as far as it goes -- it's not enumerated in our Charter Of Rights And Freedoms.

    But there's some debate about the right itself existing, as a natural right, or as a historically Canadian right.
    For years all kinds of firearms laws were not passed in Canada because MPs asserted the right to bear arms was a right Canadians held.
    The place the right came to the USA is the same place the right should have come to Canada, historically and philosophically.
    But it remains a tough sell.

    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Your right to go armed for the defence of your loved ones, your neighbours, your nation.
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    Probably wrong, with some qualifications.

    There are several cases at various levels of the courts that assert that necessity trumps other laws, and if you have to defend your loved ones, your neighbours, or your nation, with your guns, that's just fine.
    But my goodness does it have to be reasonable in the totality of the circumstances, as agreed by your peers, use-of-force rules, and beforehand & afterwards in absolute accordance with the Law (e.g. safe storage).

    Last month that was expressed by the

    Mr. Stanley was lawfully justified in the circumstances of this case to retrieve his handgun and fire it into the air as warning shots
    -- Chief Justice Martel Popescul, 2018/02/14, Battleford Saskatchewan
    hxxp://nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-transcript-of-judges-instructions-to-colten-boushie-jury-put-yourself-in-a-jurors-shoes
    Last edited by RangeBob; 03-02-2018 at 01:21 AM.

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    Your rights do not exist because they are granted by law.
    It is true that we are not America. They stand up for their rights.

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  8. #5
    Senior Member CLW .45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    Actually, we do.

    And the failure of government to recognize it merely makes exercise of the right hazardous.

    Rights do not emanate from legislation.
    To show that men can travel to the moon and return, use the American experience.

    To show that public safety isn’t hurt by responsible individuals carrying to protect life, use the American experience.

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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    You are so wrong. Rights vs law, two completely different fish, but governments would like everyone to believe they are the same thing. It makes your subjugation and exploitation so much safer and easier for them if you do. Rights are something we all have by the very nature of being born human, they have existed for much longer than any form of organized government and will continue to exist as long as mankind exists. They may be acknowledged or sometimes even entrenched in law (see Magna Carta and US Bill of Rights), but that only makes them easier to defend in courts of law, it does not make them just go away if they are not written down. Law comes from governments and as such is subject to the evils that are inherent in all of us and especially those that find themselves in positions of power over their fellow citizens. Anytime government infringes on our rights there is always a possibility the "we the people" will just say no. In the case of effectively armed citizens it becomes just that much easier to say no if necessary because the usual response of governments is to declare our refusal an infringement of law and then use violence to enforce that "law"....for what they then call "our own good". It is possible to say no, however, even if the general population is unarmed. This was demonstrated by Ghandi, when he defeated the British Empire at the height of it's colonial power by "just saying no" or as it is now called civil disobedience.

    Ghandi.jpg
    Last edited by FallisCowboy; 03-02-2018 at 11:53 AM.

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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    Haven't you heard? Laws don't grant or revoke rights, they uphold them or violate them.

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  14. #8
    Member MetisWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IJ22 View Post
    Haven't you heard? Laws don't grant or revoke rights, they uphold them or violate them.
    Ok, sure. But our rights have to be written somewhere, in order for the law to uphold or violate them.
    If there is no written right, then it is not legitimate.

    People cannot spew the same "We have a right to...." as the American's do, here in Canada. Because it does not apply here.
    MetisWolf

    Part Wolf, Part Metis - All Gun Owner and Canadian

  15. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Ok, sure. But our rights have to be written somewhere, in order for the law to uphold or violate them.
    If there is no written right, then it is not legitimate.

    People cannot spew the same "We have a right to...." as the American's do, here in Canada. Because it does not apply here.
    Worked for LGBTQ... Worked for gay marriage. Worked for women in the army. You have to stand for your rights and press for the law to be changed. If you resign yourself to not having rights until something is written somewhere you'll be in a virtual gulag forever.

  16. #10
    Member MetisWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IJ22 View Post
    Worked for LGBTQ... Worked for gay marriage. Worked for women in the army. You have to stand for your rights and press for the law to be changed. If you resign yourself to not having rights until something is written somewhere you'll be in a virtual gulag forever.
    And how do we exactly decide what those rights are? Where do we find these rights? Thus kind of my point, how can the law infringe on or enforce rights, if we don't even know what they are. I know someone mentioned "Natural Rights", but how do you define those too? Where do they end? If there is no written "rights" other then those already defined, how do you define them? What makes it so i cannot make something up?
    MetisWolf

    Part Wolf, Part Metis - All Gun Owner and Canadian

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