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  1. #1
    Senior Member CLW .45's Avatar
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    Note to Canada’s Firearms Organizations

    Are we pro-gun?

    Am I pro-gun?

    The correct answer when answering for myself, and who am I to answer for others, I am pro-rights.

    You have a right to life.

    You have a right to property.

    You have a right to speak freely.

    You have a right to keep and bear arms.

    As a pro-rights individual I advocate for your rights.

    Your right to defend the lives of your loved ones.

    Your right to own and use your property.

    Your right to speak truth to power.

    Your right to go armed for the defence of your loved ones, your neighbours, your nation.

    As a member I am the gun lobby.

    As such I will never ask you to give up your guns, your devices, your ammo, your uses, or your aspirations - in the vain hope that I will maintain my own. That would be a vile betrayal of my fellows.

    Some have, on virtually every forum, demanded that you abandon your property and aspirations to protect theirs. Because theirs is good, and mainstream, while yours is controversial, and beyond the pale. Vile indeed.

    Shall we all get together and tell Ralph Goodale, as I did this evening, to either step up and ban everything - or stop this unending war on us?
    To show that men can travel to the moon and return, use the American experience.

    To show that public safety isn’t hurt by responsible individuals carrying to protect life, use the American experience.

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  3. #2
    Member MetisWolf's Avatar
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    You have a right to keep and bear arms.
    Your right to go armed for the defence of your loved ones, your neighbours, your nation.
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    MetisWolf

    Part Wolf, Part Metis - All Gun Owner and Canadian

  4. #3
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    You have a right to keep and bear arms.
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    Probably correct, at least in practice.

    The Supreme Court Of Canada said we have no enumerated right to keep and bear arms.
    R. v. Wiles 2005
    That's correct as far as it goes -- it's not enumerated in our Charter Of Rights And Freedoms.

    But there's some debate about the right itself existing, as a natural right, or as a historically Canadian right.
    For years all kinds of firearms laws were not passed in Canada because MPs asserted the right to bear arms was a right Canadians held.
    The place the right came to the USA is the same place the right should have come to Canada, historically and philosophically.
    But it remains a tough sell.

    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Your right to go armed for the defence of your loved ones, your neighbours, your nation.
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    Probably wrong, with some qualifications.

    There are several cases at various levels of the courts that assert that necessity trumps other laws, and if you have to defend your loved ones, your neighbours, or your nation, with your guns, that's just fine.
    But my goodness does it have to be reasonable in the totality of the circumstances, as agreed by your peers, use-of-force rules, and beforehand & afterwards in absolute accordance with the Law (e.g. safe storage).

    Last month that was expressed by the

    Mr. Stanley was lawfully justified in the circumstances of this case to retrieve his handgun and fire it into the air as warning shots
    -- Chief Justice Martel Popescul, 2018/02/14, Battleford Saskatchewan
    hxxp://nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-transcript-of-judges-instructions-to-colten-boushie-jury-put-yourself-in-a-jurors-shoes
    Last edited by RangeBob; 03-02-2018 at 01:21 AM.

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    Your rights do not exist because they are granted by law.
    It is true that we are not America. They stand up for their rights.

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  8. #5
    Senior Member CLW .45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    Actually, we do.

    And the failure of government to recognize it merely makes exercise of the right hazardous.

    Rights do not emanate from legislation.
    To show that men can travel to the moon and return, use the American experience.

    To show that public safety isn’t hurt by responsible individuals carrying to protect life, use the American experience.

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  10. #6
    Senior Member LB303's Avatar
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    One could argue convincingly that any time a law is enacted, it's to restrict your rights.
    "If we had a vote tomorrow I would vote, once again, to keep the Registry..." - Justin Trudeau
    "... if Canadians are to trust their government, their government needs to trust Canadians." - Justin Trudeau

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  12. #7
    Decided that being pink is in
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    You are so wrong. Rights vs law, two completely different fish, but governments would like everyone to believe they are the same thing. It makes your subjugation and exploitation so much safer and easier for them if you do. Rights are something we all have by the very nature of being born human, they have existed for much longer than any form of organized government and will continue to exist as long as mankind exists. They may be acknowledged or sometimes even entrenched in law (see Magna Carta and US Bill of Rights), but that only makes them easier to defend in courts of law, it does not make them just go away if they are not written down. Law comes from governments and as such is subject to the evils that are inherent in all of us and especially those that find themselves in positions of power over their fellow citizens. Anytime government infringes on our rights there is always a possibility the "we the people" will just say no. In the case of effectively armed citizens it becomes just that much easier to say no if necessary because the usual response of governments is to declare our refusal an infringement of law and then use violence to enforce that "law"....for what they then call "our own good". It is possible to say no, however, even if the general population is unarmed. This was demonstrated by Ghandi, when he defeated the British Empire at the height of it's colonial power by "just saying no" or as it is now called civil disobedience.

    Ghandi.jpg
    Last edited by FallisCowboy; 03-02-2018 at 11:53 AM.

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  14. #8
    Senior Member murph83's Avatar
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    We have natural rights, obviously, but the fact that our rights have never been put into writing( property rights, gun rights, castle laws etc) is were this country got it all wrong. Furthermore, the fact that the citizens at the time did not demand that these rights be written into our constitution should tell you how weak minded Canadians have been since the start. The fact that the Canadian government has never taken it upon themselves to enshrine any of the above rights into the charter at anytime should tell you all you really need to know about the mindset of Canadians.
    Liberal party of Canada-Useless since 1867

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  16. #9
    Decided that being pink is in
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    Quote Originally Posted by murph83 View Post
    We have natural rights, obviously, but the fact that our rights have never been put into writing( property rights, gun rights, castle laws etc) is were this country got it all wrong. Furthermore, the fact that the citizens at the time did not demand that these rights be written into our constitution should tell you how weak minded Canadians have been since the start. The fact that the Canadian government has never taken it upon themselves to enshrine any of the above rights into the charter at anytime should tell you all you really need to know about the mindset of Canadians.
    This actually tells me more about the nature and desires of those individuals that make up our government most of the time. I don't blame those that built this country; after all most of them came here to escape the excesses of their governments in their country of origin. Of course they had been subjected to many generations of social conditioning before they got here and those that stepped up to form the first government here had come from service in those same corrupted governments. It is a very difficult thing to eliminate the corruption that goes along with having power over others. Our current Prime Moron and his minions are a classic example of the years of inbred corruption known as the "Laurentian Elite".
    Last edited by FallisCowboy; 03-02-2018 at 12:07 PM.

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  18. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetisWolf View Post
    Actually, no we don't. We have no law that says this, anywhere.
    We are not America.
    Haven't you heard? Laws don't grant or revoke rights, they uphold them or violate them.

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