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  1. #1
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    Swiss Arms legal to buy still?

    Hi. Im kinda confused about the C-71, my question is: Is it still legal to buy a Swiss Arms as of right now, and if you do would you be able go shoot with it just like with non-restricted or it be like other prohibited that just have to be kept in the safe?

    Best Regards

  2. #2
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Bill C71 hasn't passed yet. So no change since 2015.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eluoci View Post
    Is it still legal to buy a Swiss Arms as of right now,
    Yes
    Quote Originally Posted by Eluoci View Post
    would you be able go shoot with it just like with non-restricted
    Yes.
    I don't recall if they're all non-restricted, but those that are are still currently non-restricted.

  3. #3
    Moderator kennymo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangeBob View Post
    Bill C71 hasn't passed yet. So no change since 2015.


    Yes

    Yes.
    I don't recall if they're all non-restricted, but those that are are still currently non-restricted.
    IIRC, there are some restricted ones around, but only due to <18.5" barrels on a semi auto.
    Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

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  5. #4
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    Perfectly ok to purchase and use until the passing in law of C71

    ..that is if you don't mind WAY over paying for a used item simply because its been identified as the next safe-only unicorn.
    EOSC Member
    Proud CSSA & NRA Member

    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

    John Stuart Mill

  6. #5
    Senior Member Deuce-deuce's Avatar
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    Legal but not so sure it’s a sound investment though.

  7. #6
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    Thanks guys! I've read that you still be able to shoot them just as non-restricted shoot on crown lands and stuff, just wont be able to transfer them to any one else. Is it true or i miss read something? Used to own one but sold it =(.

  8. #7
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eluoci View Post
    Thanks guys! I've read that you still be able to shoot them just as non-restricted shoot on crown lands and stuff, just wont be able to transfer them to any one else. Is it true or i miss read something? Used to own one but sold it =(.
    Bill C71 makes a bunch of them prohibited, with range use only.
    So, no crown lands.

    You'll be able to transfer them to anyone who already owns one (and has the corresponding possession on their PAL), and wants another.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangeBob View Post
    Bill C71 makes a bunch of them prohibited, with range use only.
    So, no crown lands.

    You'll be able to transfer them to anyone who already owns one (and has the corresponding possession on their PAL), and wants another.
    I used to work at a gunshop slash walk-in range, almost never saw prohibited be brought by customers to shoot, as getting ATT for it is hard, I know there were an option to keep the prohibited gun in the shops vault, so you don't have to get an ATT every time you were going to the range, but i don't remember any one doing it. The only things prohibited that were shot in there were rental guns. Would it be this type of "prohibition" or it be more like an AR-15 were you could only shoot at a range, which sucks, but better then the other crap?

  10. #9
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    BILL C-71
    Text of the Bill as of First Reading
    http://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en.../first-reading
    Last edited by RangeBob; 05-02-2018 at 09:50 PM. Reason: wrong link

  11. #10
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    12.2: FA Full Automatic
    12.3: CA Converted Automatic
    12.4: OIC # 12 (OIC = Order in Council) A small class, examples are: Sterling MK6, Steyr AUG, Uzi carbine, Mod A and mini Uzi
    12.5: OIC #13 A large class, examples are: FN FAL, H&K, AK47, Thompsons etc.
    12.6: Handgun All .25, .32 (some exceptions) and handguns with a barrel length of 105mm and less. Registered before 14 Feb 1995
    12.7: PROHIBITED 12.6 handguns inheritable by immediate next of kin as they were manufactured before 1946.

    12.2, 12.3, 12.4, and 12.5, were given Special Authority To Possess (SAP) authorizations to transport to the range from 1995 to 2003. Whereas 12.6 and restricted uses ATTs.
    Then in 2003, Bill C-10A appeared : and that was the end of SAPs.
    12.2, 12.3, 12.4, and 12.5 have been safe queens ever since.

    Bill C-10A
    [BEGIN ****]
    Quote Originally Posted by FirearmsAct
    19 (1) An individual who holds a licence authorizing the individual to possess prohibited firearms or restricted firearms may be authorized to transport a particular prohibited firearm or restricted firearm between two or more specified places for any good and sufficient reason, including, without restricting the generality of the foregoing,

    (a) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29;
    (a.1) to provide instructions in the use of firearms as part of a restricted firearms safety course that is approved by the federal Minister; or

    (b) if the individual
    (i) changes residence,
    (ii) wishes to transport the firearm to a peace officer, firearms officer or chief firearms officer for registration or disposal in accordance with this Act or Part III of the Criminal Code,
    (iii) wishes to transport the firearm for repair, storage, sale, exportation or appraisal, or
    (iv) wishes to transport the firearm to a gun show.
    (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), an individual may not be authorized to transport a prohibited firearm, other than a handgun referred to in subsection 12(6.1), under that subsection, except for the purposes referred to in paragraph (1)(b).
    -- Bill C-10A

    Bill C-10A
    Royal Assent (2003-05-13)
    http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDet...116&Language=E

    Bill C-10A
    Frequently Asked Questions
    Other prohibited firearms may no longer be transported to a shooting range. However, they can be transported for other purposes, such as a change of residence, a change of ownership, export, repair, participation in a gun show, or lawful disposal.
    http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/faq/c10a-eng.htm

    Text of the Bill
    http://www.parl.ca/Content/Bills/372..._4/c-10a_4.pdf
    [END ****]

    I was thinking about this topic this morning, and spent a couple of hours chasing it.
    I found that it started with Bill C-10 in the second sitting of 37th session of parliament. C-10 was a bill concerning cruelty to animals legislation and amendments to the Firearms Act. This bill passed 3 readings in the house of commons and was sent to the Senate. The clause that creates ss19.2 does not appear in this bill.
    The record shows that the senate made some amendments to the bill, but also decided that it was really stupid to have one bill that tackled two so very different bits of business. So they split C-10 into two bills: C-10A, dealing with changes to the Firearms Act, and C-10B, dealing with cruelty to animals. They then sent it back to the house of commons to consider their changes.
    C-10A, as read in the House of Commons, does contain the clause that creates ss19.2. But the opposition parties in the HoC were so pissed off that the Senate split a bill they had created that they spent all of the one day allocated to this stage arguing whether or not it was legal, or democratic, or desireable for the Senate to do such a thing. Then the issue of whether to accept the senate changes was voted on and the Liberal majority passed it through.
    I could not find any record in Hansard that any member of the house of commons mentioned the addition of the clause banning issuance of an SAP for prohibited firearms. Nor could I find anything in Hansard that documents what amendments were made by the Senate or what items were debated, only that some were. I presume the subject clause was added in a senate committee, but those reports aren't available online. All I can tell you is that the clause wasn't there when the house passed C-10, but it was there when the house passed C-10A, and there doesn't seem to have been any debate on it.
    -- BattleRife;14754170

    Actually, you could never get an ATT for a prohibited rifle, that permit was called a SAP or Special Authority to Possess.
    Bill C-10A was implemented to allow owners of 12(6) handguns to use their firearms at ranges because when the libs wrote bill C-68 the didn't notice that they had lumped all of the 12(6) handguns in with the other 12(x) class guns. The wording of C-10A has been purposefully misinterpreted to stop 12(x) class of firearms from being taken to the range by saying that they can no longer get ATT's to transport them.....something that never happened in the first place.
    What will happen is, the CZ series will go into one class, the Swiss arms series will go into another separate class. ATT's will be issued for a period of time so that there will not be too much complaining then all of a sudden when you ask for one it will be for specific days, to specific ranges, then one day it will be "We are not issuing those any more".
    Here is the SAP regulation:
    PART 3Possession of Certain Prohibited Firearms
    13 An individual who holds a licence authorizing the possession of a prohibited firearm, other than a handgun referred to in subsection 12(6) of the Act, may be authorized by a chief firearms officer to possess such a firearm in the circumstances set out in subsection 14(1) or (2).
    14 (1) The chief firearms officer of the province in which the following activities are to take place may, if the safety of any person will not be endangered, authorize the possession of a firearm referred to in section 13 at a shooting range and in the course of transporting the firearm by a route that is, in all the circumstances, reasonably direct between the place authorized under section 17 of the Act with respect to that firearm and the shooting range
    (a) in the case of an automatic firearm, if it is being used for test firing or demonstration purposes on an occasional basis, at a shooting range maintained by the Minister of National Defence under the National Defence Act; and
    (b) in the case of any other prohibited firearm, if it is being used for test firing or demonstration purposes or for target shooting or competitive events, on an occasional basis, at a shooting range approved under section 29 of the Act or maintained by the Minister of National Defence under the National Defence Act.
    (2) The chief firearms officer of the province in which the individual referred to in section 13 resides may, if the safety of any person will not be endangered, authorize the possession of a firearm referred to in that section in the course of transporting the firearm by a route that, in all the circumstances, is reasonably direct between the place authorized under section 17 of the Act with respect to that firearm and a customs office if the firearm is being used on an occasional basis at an event outside of Canada.
    15 An individual who holds a licence authorizing the possession of a prohibited firearm may be authorized by the chief firearms officer of the province in which the individual resides to possess such a firearm in the course of transporting it by a route that is, in all the circumstances, reasonably direct between the place authorized under section 17 of the Act with respect to that firearm and the location of an approved verifier for the purpose of verification.
    Here is the paragraph they are using to make the above null, but, that regulation has never been rescinded and a SAP is NOT an ATT, I have copies of both and they are two different documents.
    Exception for prohibited firearms other than prohibited handguns
    (2) Despite subsection (1), an individual must not be authorized to transport a prohibited firearm, other than a handgun referred to in subsection 12(6.1), between specified places except for the purposes referred to in paragraph (1)(b).
    Notice the term Authorized to Transport (ATT) not SAP. Law is funny when it is applies wrongly!
    Scott
    -- m39a2;14790624

    12.6 handguns are prohibited, but the Firearms Act still allows Authorization To Transport for them to the range. So even today people are able to shoot them.

    Bill C-71 adds
    12.11 - CZ858
    12.14 - Swiss arms

    Bill C-71 says 12.11 and 12.14 will be allowed ATTs to the range, similar to the 12.6's and the restricted firearms.

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