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  1. #1
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    RCMP Sent A Notice About Changes For C-71. Of Course, It Has Errors.

    RCMP Sent A Notice About Changes To Authorizations To Transport For C-71. Of Course, It Has Errors.


  2. #2
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    @8:20 ish

    better go buy a new handgun I guess.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Two For Sure's Avatar
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    Runkle has no clue what he's talking about. Everyone who owns restricted or 12.6 has or should have a piece of paper from the RCMP listing the former special conditions for transport with his name, license and the same expiry date as his license. What is in the mail is a new piece of paper listing the new special conditions (to and from approved range within your province and taking a new acquisition home) to replace the old one. I got mine today and there's no need to buy a new handgun to bring them into effect.

    I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he doesn't own restricted and doesn't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two For Sure View Post
    Runkle has no clue what he's talking about. Everyone who owns restricted or 12.6 has or should have a piece of paper from the RCMP listing the former special conditions for transport with his name, license and the same expiry date as his license. What is in the mail is a new piece of paper listing the new special conditions (to and from approved range within your province and taking a new acquisition home) to replace the old one. I got mine today and there's no need to buy a new handgun to bring them into effect.

    I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he doesn't own restricted and doesn't know.
    wtf are you on about?

    The letter [email] I received was them [rcmp] telling me the restrictions changed. What Runkle said if you would have cared to listen, was the att [the 'piece of paper' you are talking about] have been automatically revoked and the only way to legally transport your restricted or prohibited is to have a new att issued which he suggested is automatic on a new purchase. Otherwise you will have to wait for the new piece of paper "conditions attached to license" which you must have to be legal to transport. Good for you, you got yours. To the people who have not they can not transport. I am not seeing how this is a hard concept to understand but I can see who I am talking to.

  5. #5
    Member awndray's Avatar
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    4 conditions have been removed. Others remain. You can still transport to/from the range and home from a LGS. Any other transport requires an ATT.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Two For Sure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big-Boss-Man View Post
    wtf are you on about?

    The letter [email] I received was them [rcmp] telling me the restrictions changed. What Runkle said if you would have cared to listen, was the att [the 'piece of paper' you are talking about] have been automatically revoked and the only way to legally transport your restricted or prohibited is to have a new att issued which he suggested is automatic on a new purchase. Otherwise you will have to wait for the new piece of paper "conditions attached to license" which you must have to be legal to transport. Good for you, you got yours. To the people who have not they can not transport. I am not seeing how this is a hard concept to understand but I can see who I am talking to.
    A new ATT was issued with the revocations and they are being sent to the registered addresses. If Runkle had read the email he'd know that.

    Here's what the RCMP email said

    All affected licenceholders will be mailed a formal notification of the changes to the Authorizations to Transport, including your current updated licence conditions.
    Only a complete idiot would go out and buy a restricted firearm based on Runkle's advice only to have the required paperwork show up in the mail a couple of days later. I like someone giving legal advice to both know the law and have read the relevant documents. YMMV.

  7. #7
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two For Sure View Post
    I like someone giving legal advice to both know the law and have read the relevant documents.
    I'm certain that Runkle both knows the law and has read the relevant documents, and understood all of them.
    He recently won a court hearing with similar arguments.

    Runkle's point is that Bill C-71 was poorly written, and doesn't give the Canadian Firearms Centre the procedural authority to do what Bill C-71 requires it to do. One way they do have procedural authority is if the RPALer buys a new handgun. Another way is when the RPALer renews their licence.
    Or to put it another way, the RCMP are doing what they can with what they've got, PALers are in legal limbo but it's unlikely any police officer is going to care about the letter of the law vs the intent, and the Liberals who wrote the Bill are idiot zealots.

    Runkle said that anyone who gets the new conditions is fine. It's those who haven't gotten them yet. As I recall the email the RCMP sent says they'll be snail mailing the new conditions out shortly (you said you have yours already), but when Runkle phoned the CFO the CFO said they weren't. If the RCMP hasn't attached the new conditions to your licence yet, the old conditions are revoked by the coming-into-force, so there's a moment of limbo. Hence Runkle suggested phoning the CFO to ensure they've attached the new conditions at least in the Canadian Firearms Program database.
    So, if the RCMP has then you're fine. If you've confirmed they have, you're fine. If you get the snail mailed paperwork you're fine. If the RCMP hasn't then you're not fine at all, and might not know you're not fine, but probably no one will care because the intent is to be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by awndray View Post
    4 conditions have been removed. Others remain. You can still transport to/from the range and home from a LGS. Any other transport requires an ATT.
    And that would be the intent. And probably the bottom line of it.
    Last edited by RangeBob; 08-03-2021 at 05:29 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Two For Sure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangeBob View Post
    I'm certain that Runkle both knows the law and has read the relevant documents, and understood all of them.
    He recently won a court hearing with similar arguments.

    Runkle's point is that Bill C-71 was poorly written, and doesn't give the Canadian Firearms Centre the procedural authority to do what Bill C-71 requires it to do. One way they do have procedural authority is if the RPALer buys a new handgun. Another way is when the RPALer renews their licence.
    Or to put it another way, the RCMP are doing what they can with what they've got, PALers are in legal limbo but it's unlikely any police officer is going to care about the letter of the law vs the intent, and the Liberals who wrote the Bill are idiot zealots.

    And that would be the intent. And probably the bottom line of it.
    Here's what the legislation says and it's a bit of a leap to suggest it does not give the CFC the authority to make the changes:

    https://parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42...1/royal-assent

    (3) Subsections 19(2.*1) to (2.*3) of the Act are replaced by the following:

    Automatic authorization to transport ó licence renewal

    (2.*1) An individual who holds a licence authorizing the individual to possess restricted firearms or handguns referred to in subsection 12(6.*1) must, if the licence is renewed, be authorized to transport them within the individualís province of residence to and from all shooting clubs and shooting ranges that are approved under section 29. However, the authorization does not apply to a restricted firearm or a handgun referred to in subsection 12(6.*1) whose transfer to the individual was approved, in accordance with subparagraph 28(b)*(ii), for the purpose of having it form part of a gun collection.

    Automatic authorization to transport ó transfer

    (2.*2) If a chief firearms officer has authorized the transfer of a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm to an individual who holds a licence authorizing the individual to possess prohibited firearms or restricted firearms, the individual must be authorized to transport the firearm within the individualís province of residence from the place where they acquire it to the place where they may possess it under section 17.

    Automatic authorization to transport ó transfer

    (2.*3) If a chief firearms officer has authorized the transfer of a restricted firearm or a handgun referred to in subsection 12(6.*1) to an individual who holds a licence authorizing the individual to possess a restricted firearm or such a handgun, the individual must be authorized to transport their restricted firearm or handgun within the individualís province of residence to and from all shooting clubs and shooting ranges that are approved under section 29, unless the transfer of the restricted firearm or handgun was approved, in accordance with subparagraph 28(b)*(ii), for the purpose of having it form part of a gun collection.

    As before the authorization to transport is automatic and comes with a valid licence. RPAL holders had a piece of paper outlining the previous special conditions and have or will soon have the current special conditions.




  9. #9
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two For Sure View Post
    Here's what the legislation says and it's a bit of a leap to suggest it does not give the CFC the authority to make the changes:
    Its Bill C-71 in conjunction with other laws such as the Firearms Act.

    Nonetheless, you make Runkle's case with the text you quote.

    • (2. *1) -- Did you renew your licence this week, if not then this paragraph doesn't apply to you and the RCMP doesn't have authority to issue authorization/conditions under this paragraph.
    • (2. *2) -- Did you transfer/buy a handgun this week, if not then this paragraph doesn't apply to you and the RCMP doesn't have authority to issue authorization/conditions under this paragraph.
    • (2. *3) -- Did you transfer/buy a 12.6 handgun this week, if not then this paragraph doesn't apply to you and the RCMP doesn't have authority to issue authorization/conditions under this paragraph.


    Indeed, most RPALers didn't do those three things. And by 'most' I mean 99% of us didn't do those things this week.



    "It's not what the law intended, it's what the words actually say."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two For Sure View Post


    As before the authorization to transport is automatic and comes with a valid licence. RPAL holders had a piece of paper outlining the previous special conditions and have or will soon have the current special conditions.



    This is where you are being obtuse. The in between time when they don't have one.

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