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Thread: CZ 858 Tactical

  1. #1
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    CZ 858 Tactical

    Hey guys,
    I'm somewhat confused with all this talk about the CZ 858 rifles possibly being prohibited.
    What's the status today on the CZ 858 Tactical 2-P, with a date of 2012 in the window, and having an 18.5" barrel? As far as I know, these are non-restricted, and are they being considered for the prohibited class?

    Thanks.

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    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Bill C-71, text of the bill.
    http://www.parl.ca/Content/Bills/421...1_1/C-71_1.PDF

    If you register it before June 30, 2018, you become grandfathered for prohibited 12(11), and can take it to a CFO approved shooting range. It's prohibited, so you'll need to comply with the prohibited storage regulations. It can only be sold to other people who own CZ858's and are 12(11) grandfathered. When you die it's destroyed. You can't use it as a non-restricted (e.g. crown land, hunting, etc).

    If you fail to register it before June 30, 2018, there's a possession amnesty till 2021. However you must phone police to come and pick it up, and they'll take it and destroy it. If it's not registered, you can't take it to a CFO approved shooting range or anywhere else. It's a safe queen until it's destroyed.

    If the bill fails to pass, then neither of these things happen.

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    Senior Member Mark-II's Avatar
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    Doesn't the deadline make it seem like they really want as many of these to fall out of scope as possible. You cannot reasonably expect every owner of such rifles to know about the deadline.

    It'll also make for some nice "Man detained at traffic stop found to be in possession of a prohibited assault-style rifle" headlines.
    Schrödinger's Gat - The logical paradox which posits that a firearm, stored safe in the home, is at the same time On The Streets

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    Senior Member Deuce-deuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark-II View Post
    Doesn't the deadline make it seem like they really want as many of these to fall out of scope as possible. You cannot reasonably expect every owner of such rifles to know about the deadline.

    It'll also make for some nice "Man detained at traffic stop found to be in possession of a prohibited assault-style rifle" headlines.
    Do you honestly think they’ll even get 50% of them?

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    Senior Member Mark-II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce-deuce View Post
    Do you honestly think they’ll even get 50% of them?
    No, I was musing on their motivations and expectations, not upon reality

    Crank up the paper criminal making machine, Justin...
    Schrödinger's Gat - The logical paradox which posits that a firearm, stored safe in the home, is at the same time On The Streets

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark-II View Post
    Doesn't the deadline make it seem like they really want as many of these to fall out of scope as possible. You cannot reasonably expect every owner of such rifles to know about the deadline.
    Being Non-restricted, there's no reasonable way for the RCMP CanadianFirearmsProgram to notify the owners. If they do it'll be a political mess for the RCMP, because they'll be admitting they kept a copy of the LGR, in violation of the law.

    Assuming the 4% of PALers who signed the petition represent the readership and reach of various social media, my guess is that 96% of CZ858 owners will not find out about this date until it's too late.

    The bulk of them could be notified via the vendors that sold them, but that's a lot of work for the vendors. (I'm assuming they have emails, otherwise its envelopes & stamps)

    Low Estimate
    CZ858 9800 * $729.95 = $7,153,510
    Swiss 1800 * $2999 = $5,398,200
    Total: $12,551,710

    High Estimate (most CZ owners I've seen, an old NFA announcement; and higher Swiss Arms price)
    CZ858 13000 * $729.95 = $9,489,350
    Swiss 1800 * $4000 = $7,200,000
    Total: $16,689,350

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    Thanks RangeBob.

    So as of now, is the rifle considered non-restricted because of the barrel length?
    Can it be sold before June 30 to anyone with a Pal or RPal as a non-restricted?
    When do they vote on the bill?

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    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    So as of now, is the rifle considered non-restricted
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    because of the barrel length?
    No.
    It's non-restricted because it's a Named Non-Restricted by an Order In Council.
    Specifically this one, SOR/2015-213 July 31, 2015
    http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/20...rs213-eng.html

    Bill C71 will override that Order In Council, by making it a Named Prohibited in the Act.
    Bill C71 also removes the ability for a minister to ever move a restricted or prohibited firearm to non-restricted by making it a Named Non-Restricted by Order In Council.
    Bill C71 retains the ability for a minister to move a non-restricted to restricted or prohibited by making it a Named Restricted or Named Prohibited by Order In Council.

    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    Can it be sold before June 30 to anyone with a Pal or RPal as a non-restricted?
    It can be sold to anyone with a PAL before the Bill passes as a non-restricted. (But that might be mean.)
    There are lots of them for sale on CGN and elsewhere. Fewer takers, lower prices, already.

    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    When do they vote on the bill?
    Here's the current status of the Bill C-71
    https://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDe...billId=9710291

    It's currently finished Second Reading in the House of Commons, and is being reviewed by the House Of Commons "Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security". It's expected to be out of committee by the end of the month.
    It's expected have 3rd reading, debate, and 3rd reading debate & vote in the House of Commons, the first week of June.
    Thereafter it goes to the Senate. First reading, Second Reading with debate & vote, Committee, 3rd reading debate and vote, by the end of June.
    Royal Assent the end of June. It'll appear in the Canada Gazette the next week, and then it's law.

    That said, no one can really predict the schedule.
    The House Of Commons "Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security" normally meets Tuesdays and Thursdays, but they haven't even published what they're doing Tuesday May 15 (today) yet.

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    Senior Member Deuce-deuce's Avatar
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    “Fewer takers and lower prices”... both numbers will keep dropping.

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    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce-deuce View Post
    “Fewer takers and lower prices”... both numbers will keep dropping.
    CZ and Swiss Arms. When I looked at it there was a date for the grandfathering of June 30 2018. Why that date, it being a future date, was chosen.
    -- Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, SECU, May 8 2018 near 1h 32m

    June 30 was chosen to provide a certain period of notice to owners and vendors of these firearms before the legal status of them would change. It provides time for people who may own a firearm to decide if they wish to remain an owner of the firearm, whether they wish to comply with the requirements that will be in place to become a grandfathered owner, it also allows for vendors and importers to make their plans about what they may wish to do with inventories or imports of an item that is about to become a prohibited firearm.
    -- Randall Koops, Dept of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, SECU, May 8 2018 near 1h 33m

    The reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering how that impacts the market for these firearms. Whether it makes them more desirable during that period.
    -- Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, SECU, May 8 2018 near 1h 33m

    I think in general it makes them less desirable. From the perspective of one has significantly reduced opportunities to sell the firearm because one can only sell it to another grandfathered owner. So the firearms are less attractive from that perspective in the sense of their market value.
    -- Randall Koops, Dept of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, SECU, May 8 2018 near 1h 34m

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