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  1. #51
    Senior Member gunnutt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soph View Post
    Our challenge as gun owners in Canada is that we are fighting a defensive war, trying to give as little ground as possible at each encounter.

    That's largely because we do not have, in law, a fundamental right to bear arms as a backstop. One can argue that a "law of mankind" (or the like) to gun ownership is absolute. But that is not a defensible position in Canada so it is easily swept away.

    We are dependent entirely upon consensus, the mood of the day, the political will...or the lack there-of of any of these things.

    I cannot fathom Canada broadly ever adopting a fundamental right such as the 2nd amendment as in the US.

    As a result it will always be a war to keep the gains of the other side as small as possible over the long term. The only thing that changes that reality is a change to the reality of what Canada is. It's current structure, coalition of regions and provinces, and Constitution, will never accommodate it. In the current reality, we are destined only to fight the long retreat.
    Agreed, best defense is the good offense, we got to aim for something bigger.

  2. #52
    Senior Member gunnutt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnutt View Post
    The real question is: Is my right to life (live) guaranteed and protected in Canada? Is it a right? I know its a simple thing to ask but from there stems the whole problem...
    Ok, to clarify... I know that it is a right. "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice." but is it Guaranteed by the Government? If the Government says YES it is, next Q is how it is Guaranteed? Seriously how? The police comes in most cases after the fact that a crime is committed, its not a "preventative" force. If the Gov want to guarantee my right to life they will have to literally put a police officer on every corner, the opposite of this is that the Guv will have to admit that while we have the General RIGHT to life they can't Guaranteed it or PROTECT it! Which then comes down to every person's right to protect them-selves and their loved ones at ANY TIME! It will open the door for a carry permits of private citizens. Anyways, just something to vent about.
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch Benjamin Franklin

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    Camo tung (08-01-2020)

  4. #53
    Senior Member LB303's Avatar
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    Well if you're a theist or even a deist, you will be assured that your human rights pre-date and supercede any government.
    Which gives all the impetus needed to resist the false premise that government can somehow do a better job than you can.
    The atheist has created a real problem for himself, with his belief in the state serving in lieu of mysticism.

    At any rate, the real question re SHTF is this: When the shooting starts, would you rather be legal, or armed?
    Just because there's an element in society that walks around packing on a normal day for you and I, doesn't mean that I will follow suit, unless and until extreme circumstances force me to.

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    Waterloomike (04-01-2020)

  6. #54
    Senior Member Waterloomike's Avatar
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    There are times, history is littered with instances, that doing something illegal is the only moral option.


    Allow our Rightful Liberty or .....

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    Scoutertracker (04-01-2020), stewbud (04-01-2020)

  8. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB303 View Post
    Well if you're a theist or even a deist, you will be assured that your human rights pre-date and supercede any government.
    Which gives all the impetus needed to resist the false premise that government can somehow do a better job than you can.
    The atheist has created a real problem for himself, with his belief in the state serving in lieu of mysticism.
    What a load of BS. Believing in fairy tales does not grant people rights. And 'god' is not going to come down and enforce your rights. Demanding that others do not infringe on you and being willing to kill tyrants is how you get and keep rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by LB303 View Post
    At any rate, the real question re SHTF is this: When the shooting starts, would you rather be legal, or armed?
    Even before the shooting starts I'd rather be armed than legal.

  9. #56
    Senior Member LB303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manic29 View Post
    What a load of BS. Believing in fairy tales does not grant people rights. And 'god' is not going to come down and enforce your rights. Demanding that others do not infringe on you and being willing to kill tyrants is how you get and keep rights.
    I didn't say any supreme being was going to ride to your rescue. The concept of the smallness of one's self in the universe naturally allows for an ideal to strive toward. If some people express that as 'god' then so be it. You need to lighten up or you'll find yourself without allies when the chips are down.
    Anyway the point is, I exist therefore I have the right to self-preservation. Not too deep, is it.

    Even before the shooting starts I'd rather be armed than legal.
    Given that this is a publicly accessible forum, that's a brash thing to say. But given your previous diatribe, I believe you. I also wouldn't want to be the one to give you a gun.

  10. #57
    Senior Member Gunrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manic29 View Post
    What a load of BS. Believing in fairy tales does not grant people rights. And 'god' is not going to come down and enforce your rights. Demanding that others do not infringe on you and being willing to kill tyrants is how you get and keep rights.


    Even before the shooting starts I'd rather be armed than legal.
    I'd rather be both armed and legal and at present I am both in both countries (CDN, USA) I am a citizen of.
    But if it comes down to a choice of whether I'd rather be ALIVE than legal then I'll pick the option that most of us would.
    Last edited by Gunrunner; 04-12-2020 at 06:42 PM.
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  11. #58
    Senior Member gunnutt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB303 View Post
    Well if you're a theist or even a deist, you will be assured that your human rights pre-date and supercede any government.
    Which gives all the impetus needed to resist the false premise that government can somehow do a better job than you can.
    The atheist has created a real problem for himself, with his belief in the state serving in lieu of mysticism.

    At any rate, the real question re SHTF is this: When the shooting starts, would you rather be legal, or armed?
    Just because there's an element in society that walks around packing on a normal day for you and I, doesn't mean that I will follow suit, unless and until extreme circumstances force me to.
    I'm sorry, I must have missed that part...Where did the atheists are saying that they believe in the state to solve their problems? That has never been the case throughout history...In Cristian religion, the king was put there by God to govern the people, and every rebellion (or a revolution) was therefore against the teachings of the Religion.
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch Benjamin Franklin

  12. #59
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    Pre Christian. Rome's traditions beget medieval Divine Right of Kings.
    The Imperial cult of ancient Rome identified Roman emperors and some members of their families with the "divinely sanctioned" authority (auctoritas) of the Roman State. The official offer of cultus to a living emperor acknowledged his office and rule as divinely approved and constitutional: his Principate should therefore demonstrate pious respect for traditional Republican deities and mores. Many of the rites, practices and status distinctions that characterized the cult to emperors were perpetuated in the theology and politics of the Christianized Empire.

    Divine right of kings [medieval and English usage]
    -- https://www.britannica.com/topic/divine-right-of-kings

  13. #60
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron SS
    People need to remember, that the government is constantly saying all kinds of things, people sue the government every single day, and the government is constantly losing.

    The government maintained that woman weren't people and therefore could not vote, until a court said otherwise.

    The government vigorously defended the illegality of prostitution, until a court said otherwise.

    Marriage. Segregation. Residential schools. A hundred other issues. Every single one of those issues saw a parade of politicians and bureaucrats claiming what the law was until the a judge in court declared otherwise.

    The government loses in court all the time, and every single loss is preceded by some government drone claiming they know what the law says, and were proven wrong.

    Is the RCMP right? Maybe. Let the judge decide.

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    Camo tung (08-01-2020)

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