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  1. #1
    Senior Member Joshua13's Avatar
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    Rifled bullets AND barrel

    So I ran into this guy from high school and we (naturally) started talking about guns. He brought up some things that didn't really jive, however the numbers and explanations seemed so detailed that I couldn't just pass it off as BS so I wanted to bring it to the experts and get a discussion on it.

    Rifled bullets along with a rifled barrel. Now obviously I know the arguments in bullets instead of barrel. But his claim was using a harder bullet that was rifled so as to get faster rotations upon leaving the barrel. Which ends up being more accurate down range. He rattled off a bunch of numbers I don't remember. He mentioned he goes through barrels faster but the gains were worth it.
    A second thing he talked about was how he still loved using 30-06 for long distance as well, which was a pretty BN big red flag, but again he rattled off numbers and sounded convincing.

    So what do you guys think? Is there any merrit to this or is he just a really good story teller?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Camo tung's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good reason that you haven't stayed in touch since high school.
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  4. #3
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    The only rifled bullets I know of are slugs designed for a shotgun. Not saying it's bullcrap but until I saw some credible info in writing I would file it with bigfoot sightings. The 30-06 for long range is fine depending on the distance being shot at. It will do anything a 308 win will do and a bit more. What do I know though, a buddy has started calling me a grumpy old man.

  5. #4
    Senior Member RobertMcC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua13 View Post
    So I ran into this guy from high school and we (naturally) started talking about guns. He brought up some things that didn't really jive, however the numbers and explanations seemed so detailed that I couldn't just pass it off as BS so I wanted to bring it to the experts and get a discussion on it.

    Rifled bullets along with a rifled barrel. Now obviously I know the arguments in bullets instead of barrel. But his claim was using a harder bullet that was rifled so as to get faster rotations upon leaving the barrel. Which ends up being more accurate down range. He rattled off a bunch of numbers I don't remember. He mentioned he goes through barrels faster but the gains were worth it.
    A second thing he talked about was how he still loved using 30-06 for long distance as well, which was a pretty BN big red flag, but again he rattled off numbers and sounded convincing.

    So what do you guys think? Is there any merrit to this or is he just a really good story teller?
    Carlos Hathcock used a 30/06 Mod 70 in Vietnam and got some impressive at the time long range kills with it. He claimed between 300-400 and 93 were confirmed. He also set and held the record for the longest kill, till Canadian Rob Furlong destroyed it. 30/06 can be loaded to be like 308 ballistics. They used to shoot it out to 1000Y. So I cannot see why it would be a red flag.
    When the rich wage war, It's the poor who die.

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  7. #5
    Senior Member Battle Beaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMcC View Post
    Carlos Hathcock used a 30/06 Mod 70 in Vietnam and got some impressive at the time long range kills with it. He claimed between 300-400 and 93 were confirmed. He also set and held the record for the longest kill, till Canadian Rob Furlong destroyed it. 30/06 can be loaded to be like 308 ballistics. They used to shoot it out to 1000Y. So I cannot see why it would be a red flag.
    Speaking of Carlos Hathcock, I recently read "Marine Sniper", all about Carlos. It was absolutely excellent.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Marine-Sniper-...dp/0425103552/

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  8. #6
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    Both Carlos and Furlong used a .50 BMG for those shots. Hathcock's was with a scoped M2 BMG. Furlong's a .50 cal rifle.
    "...just a really good story teller..." He's a story teller, but not a good one. He doesn't know what he's talking about. Velocity isn't about faster rotations. It's about gas pressures. And if the bullet is rifled, it must precisely fit the rifling in the barrel. And it still has noting to do with velocity or accuracy. Hardness makes no difference at all.
    "...30/06 can be loaded to be like 308..." The whole point of the .308 is to get the same ballistics as the '06 with a shorter case. With like bullet weights, they're identical ballistically with the '06 being roughly 100 FPS faster.
    Nobody has ever said the '06 is no good for long range. Just that the .308, et al, is/are better. It's got something to do with the short wide case vs the slightly longer one.
    "...rifled bullets..." Artillery shells are usually rifled. So are the guns.
    "...calling me a grumpy old man..." Thank him for the compliment. It's an earned title. snicker.

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  10. #7
    Moderator kennymo's Avatar
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    The last rifled bullets I heard of were for the Brunswick rifle. They used a round ball with a ‘belt’ cast into it that fit into two rifling grooves in the bore. It was far better than the Brown Bess .75 smoothbore and other contemporaries, but fouled quickly so it was only issued to sharpshooters.
    The Whitworth (I think?) used a similar trick, but fired a hexagonal projectile that fit into a hexagonal bore.
    There were a couple others experimented with, one with four grooves instead of two, but all went the way of the Dodo when modern rifled barrels became popular.
    Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

  11. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justice View Post
    Both Carlos and Furlong used a .50 BMG for those shots. Hathcock's was with a scoped M2 BMG. Furlong's a .50 cal rifle.
    "...just a really good story teller..." He's a story teller, but not a good one. He doesn't know what he's talking about. Velocity isn't about faster rotations. It's about gas pressures. And if the bullet is rifled, it must precisely fit the rifling in the barrel. And it still has noting to do with velocity or accuracy. Hardness makes no difference at all.
    "...30/06 can be loaded to be like 308..." The whole point of the .308 is to get the same ballistics as the '06 with a shorter case. With like bullet weights, they're identical ballistically with the '06 being roughly 100 FPS faster.
    Nobody has ever said the '06 is no good for long range. Just that the .308, et al, is/are better. It's got something to do with the short wide case vs the slightly longer one.
    "...rifled bullets..." Artillery shells are usually rifled. So are the guns.
    "...calling me a grumpy old man..." Thank him for the compliment. It's an earned title. snicker.
    The 308 from my understanding is not based on 30/06, but based on the 300 Savage. In the early 1950's they were looking for a cartridge to replace the 30/06 in machine guns, they turned to the 300 Savage but found it's neck too short for reliable function, so they lengthened the neck and reduced the angle of the shoulder 10 degrees and in 1953 the 308 Winchester was born and a few years later the U.S. Army adopted it as 7.62 Nato.

  12. #9
    Super Moderator Rory McCanuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennymo View Post
    The last rifled bullets I heard of were for the Brunswick rifle. They used a round ball with a ‘belt’ cast into it that fit into two rifling grooves in the bore. It was far better than the Brown Bess .75 smoothbore and other contemporaries, but fouled quickly so it was only issued to sharpshooters.
    The Whitworth (I think?) used a similar trick, but fired a hexagonal projectile that fit into a hexagonal bore.
    There were a couple others experimented with, one with four grooves instead of two, but all went the way of the Dodo when modern rifled barrels became popular.
    Beat me by 20 minutes.

    I think buddy is stringing a line of b.s.
    Why would you rifle bullets?
    How could you possibly load them and get the rifling lined up?
    Just put a bevel on the rifling at the chamber and it will cut its own rifling into the bullets, and it will be a perfect fit.
    Oh wait, they already do that.

    We already have bullets that are hard enough to engage rifling and not get shredded.
    Even cast lead bullets can be hard enough.

    He might be using a 30-06 for 'long range' but I somehow doubt his version of long range is the same version as a lot of guys here.
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for that clown. Oct 20, '15

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  14. #10
    The Gunsmithing Moderator blacksmithden's Avatar
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    Me thinks your buddy learned everything he knows about "rifled bullets" from a paper delivery guy who hangs out at Tim Hortons at 3am and has never touched a gun.
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