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  1. #81
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    Headspace is generally irrelevant to accuracy, except in extreme cases and then the rifle has worse problems than poor accuracy.

    A borescope isn't going to show anything that can 100% be linked to poor accuracy. Maybe extreme copper fouling but that can be dealt with more easily simply by cleaning the thing.

  2. #82
    Junior Member Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suputin View Post
    Headspace is generally irrelevant to accuracy, except in extreme cases and then the rifle has worse problems than poor accuracy.

    A borescope isn't going to show anything that can 100% be linked to poor accuracy. Maybe extreme copper fouling but that can be dealt with more easily simply by cleaning the thing.
    With respect, I disagree - a borescope can very quickly show just how much throat erosion is present, and that has a very significant effect on accuracy potential. You can also see if the chambering was centered or not. I used to make rifle barrels for a living, and a borescope was a priceless tool for me to check my work, especially after chambering.

    Headspace may not be as critical, but it certainly can't hurt to check.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Waynetheman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suputin View Post
    Headspace is generally irrelevant to accuracy, except in extreme cases and then the rifle has worse problems than poor accuracy.

    A borescope isn't going to show anything that can 100% be linked to poor accuracy. Maybe extreme copper fouling but that can be dealt with more easily simply by cleaning the thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    With respect, I disagree - a borescope can very quickly show just how much throat erosion is present, and that has a very significant effect on accuracy potential. You can also see if the chambering was centered or not. I used to make rifle barrels for a living, and a borescope was a priceless tool for me to check my work, especially after chambering.

    Headspace may not be as critical, but it certainly can't hurt to check.
    Either way is (IMO) irrelevant to this guys issue. As stated earlier in the thread even smoothbore franklin armory guns are putting down better groups than this. It’s gonna be something major, he’s not even gonna be on paper at 100 with those numbers. I feel like you guys can’t see the forest for the trees with all the talk of copper fouling and throat erosion.

    Oh also I think he said it hasn’t shot well since he bought it meaning it won’t be either of those issues.
    Please refer to me as Waynetheperson, I wouldn't want to offend anyone.

  4. The Following User Liked This Post By Waynetheman

    lone-wolf (11-08-2019)

  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    With respect, I disagree - a borescope can very quickly show just how much throat erosion is present, and that has a very significant effect on accuracy potential. You can also see if the chambering was centered or not. I used to make rifle barrels for a living, and a borescope was a priceless tool for me to check my work, especially after chambering.

    Headspace may not be as critical, but it certainly can't hurt to check.
    I too have chambered and fitted barrels for a living.

    I built a test barrel out of an old and very eroded barrel and it shoots 2-3x as well as the barrel in the OP. An eroded throat will not produce 8MOA accuracy. Also, the OP has owned this rifle from new and reports that it always had crap accuracy, so this is not a case of a worn throat.

    Yes, a borescope is a useful tool for a gunsmith but the average guy isn't going to learn anything from looking down a bore. One of my company test guns has seen so much abuse the gas port has been eroded so badly it looks like an olympic ski jump and that barrel still shoots reasonably well.




    Quote Originally Posted by Waynetheman View Post
    Either way is (IMO) irrelevant to this guys issue. As stated earlier in the thread even smoothbore franklin armory guns are putting down better groups than this. It’s gonna be something major, he’s not even gonna be on paper at 100 with those numbers. I feel like you guys can’t see the forest for the trees with all the talk of copper fouling and throat erosion.
    I spent a lot of time working with subsonics and have shot 100yd groups with unstable projectiles. Bullets spinning completely sideways produce better groups than the OP reports.

  6. #85
    Minister of Silly Walks pewpew62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinilin View Post
    What caliber is actually stamped on the barrel?
    Sorry, I don't get to give this issue frequent attention.
    Barrel is stamped 5.56 NATO 1/9, 16" long.
    Mark-II/Petamocto , I've tried different optics/mounts/irons, properly torqued.
    Rory, it's not been slugged (yet).

    I spoke with the gunsmith that installed the hand guard, he told me to try shooting it without the brake and do a cotton swab test on the crown. He as well is very curious as to what's going on.

    And as always, I really appreciate the interest and the support of "you people".

  7. The Following 4 Users Like This Post By pewpew62

    lone-wolf (11-27-2019), road kill (11-27-2019), Rory McCanuck (11-27-2019), Waynetheman (11-27-2019)

  8. #86
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    Very interested in what the solution finally is.

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    lone-wolf (11-27-2019)

  10. #87
    Canadian ForcesMember Billythreefeathers's Avatar
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    ok something is lose,,, and you may not feel it with the wiggle test,,,

    try a different upper on your lower and a different lower on your upper,,,

    had my take down studs backing off,,, a simple thing but never noticed
    CSSA

  11. #88
    Minister of Silly Walks pewpew62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billythreefeathers View Post
    ok something is lose,,, and you may not feel it with the wiggle test,,,

    try a different upper on your lower and a different lower on your upper,,,

    had my take down studs backing off,,, a simple thing but never noticed
    Yessir, swapped with M&P, problem follows the upper.

  12. #89
    Senior Member Gunrunner's Avatar
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    8” - my sons Daisy BB gun can do better.
    Take a flashlight and look inside the barrel.
    Is it spiral or smooth?
    NFA member
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  13. #90
    Minister of Silly Walks pewpew62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunrunner View Post
    8” - my sons Daisy BB gun can do better.
    Take a flashlight and look inside the barrel.
    Is it spiral or smooth?
    It's been inspected by quite a few experienced people. All say rifling is clean and healthy.

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