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  1. #1
    Member awndray's Avatar
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    Outsourcing of professional services has ballooned

    Despite a promise by the government to reduce spending on external consultants to 2005 levels, spending on both professional services and external consultants increased each year in the previous term of the government. Outsourcing of professional services has ballooned from $6.4 billion in 2005 to $9.9 billion in 2017.
    https://pipsc.ca/about/governance/ag...pening-address
    https://pipsc.ca/news-issues/outsourcing

    "We will expand our fight against outsourcing by tackling some of the root causes."-- Debi Daviau, president of PIPSC

    Yet, "Federal civil-service unions happy to see Trudeau back". https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...e-trudeau-back

  2. #2
    Senior Member M1917 Enfield's Avatar
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    That's $3.5 billion a year more in payment that the unions like PIPSC are not getting their almost $10 billion cut out of from union dues. How dare the Trudeau Lieberal government!
    I live among lots of sheeple and dim witted who like to think they are good Canadians for voting Lieberal

  3. #3
    Senior Member Waterloomike's Avatar
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    Well, we knew the liberals are incapable of doing much on their own. Of course, I doubt the so called contractors didn't/won't do much either.


    The only thing they've proven is that they break promises, spend vast fortunes on foreign welfare, corp welfare and leave a much larger carbon footprint than anyone else and an enormous liquor bill.

    Parasites. Ticks and fleabags.


    Allow our Rightful Liberty or .....

  4. The Following User Liked This Post By Waterloomike

    Suputin (11-13-2019)

  5. #4
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    there's 10 YEARS of increases before the latest liberal extravaganza, that would be Harpo's doing, the conservatives aren't any better, they're all self serving

  6. The Following User Liked This Post By Stew

    lone-wolf (11-12-2019)

  7. #5
    Senior Member M1917 Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stew View Post
    there's 10 YEARS of increases before the latest liberal extravaganza, that would be Harpo's doing, the conservatives aren't any better, they're all self serving
    I guess you got confused about who actually made the promise to the nice unions in exchange for more votes?

    Imagine how much it costs the country for every PS employee we hire, train, accommodate in nice expensive downtown buildings, issue taxpayer funded cellphones, pay well above industry rates, and give expensive taxpayer subsidised pensions and benefits to and try to keep busy in slow times compared to just hiring a private sector, part time contractor to just complete the required mission specific tasks as needed.

    Now it was actually the Lieberals who were the ones who promised the unions the cut in outsourcing within the government sector to get their vote. The big bad conservatives decided it was cheaper for the taxpayer to outsource work and use contracts than just hire more expensive public servants who they knew once hired it is near impossible to get rid of them without the unions screaming blue murder over the loss of union due paying PS members.

    The union also claims outsourcing and contract employment is a travesty because it is a circumvention of superior federal employment standards of bilingualism, inclusiveness, and merit-based hiring with less transparency and accountability, fewer checks and balances and claim that Hiring delays and a cumbersome government employment process are sometimes blamed for departments’ increased reliance on outsourcing just because the average hiring time for a federal public service position is only a measly 5.5 months.

    PIPSC claim Canadians deserve the highest standards of government expertise possible, that only their unionised members can deliver. They (Canadians) deserve public services that are second-to-none, accountable, secure, cost effective, and transparent that only union dues paying PS members give.

    From the PIPSC website -

    "While the Liberals announced in 2015 their intention to reduce public spending on outside consultants to 2005/06 levels, more aggressive targets need to be achieved to reduce government dependence on outsourced services. The Trudeau government’s first budget estimated $170 million in savings for 2016 alone. As the Toronto Star reported, at that rate it will take another 10 years before spending is reduced to 2005/06 levels, after which the government will still spend several billions every year on outsourcing."

    https://www.pipsc.ca/news-issues/outsourcing
    I live among lots of sheeple and dim witted who like to think they are good Canadians for voting Lieberal

  8. The Following User Liked This Post By M1917 Enfield

    Waterloomike (11-13-2019)

  9. #6
    Senior Member Doug_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1917 Enfield View Post
    That's $3.5 billion a year more in payment that the unions like PIPSC are not getting their almost $10 billion cut out of from union dues. How dare the Trudeau Lieberal government!
    They don't rake in that much. But yes, outsourcing is a concern because of "lost" dues. But the real concern for those of us who are actual worker bees is that the contractors often come into a scenario not knowing whatever corporate knowledge they need to know so it takes time to get up to speed, then they complete the work to a lower standard than someone like me would, and leave. Then whatever they did needs maintenance or fixing and there is nobody to do it.

    Back to dues. What do we pay Awndray, something like $67 a month? There's over 50,000 members of PIPSC so they're raking in $40 million a year in dues. I voted for Debi Daviau her first term, but against her every time since. She's been a failure and your typical anti-Conservative (in couched language) pro-Liberal (also in couched language) union boss. I think when it comes to union presidents there should be term limits as they all get power hungry and corrupt over time.
    Dictionary of the future:
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    where the only way to win was not to play.

  10. #7
    Senior Member Doug_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stew View Post
    there's 10 YEARS of increases before the latest liberal extravaganza, that would be Harpo's doing, the conservatives aren't any better, they're all self serving
    You're correct in that the outsourcing issue was a problem under the Conservatives and the union was working (through bargaining) to try to minimize it. But where the Conservatives were better was that they were reducing the overall size of the public service through attrition. That has ended with the Liberals.
    Dictionary of the future:
    Global Warming was a popular computer simulation game,
    where the only way to win was not to play.

  11. The Following User Liked This Post By Doug_M

    awndray (11-13-2019)

  12. #8
    Senior Member Doug_M's Avatar
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    Well, as you know I'm both a conservative and a Conservative and there's lots of incorrect statements below. I've been a conservative far longer than I've been a public servant, but I have been a public servant and member of PIPSC for 13 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by M1917 Enfield View Post
    Imagine how much it costs the country for every PS employee we hire, train, accommodate in nice expensive downtown buildings, issue taxpayer funded cellphones, pay well above industry rates, and give expensive taxpayer subsidised pensions and benefits to and try to keep busy in slow times compared to just hiring a private sector, part time contractor to just complete the required mission specific tasks as needed.
    Not all public servants live and work in Ottawa or ON/QC for that matter. You have the NCR where yes the majority of public servants work, but elsewhere out in the "regions" you also have a great many public servants who work out of crappy old buildings for under private sector pay. More of Canada's public service should be spread out over the country rather than concentrated in Ottawa or even Canada's big cities. Put them were real estate and the cost of living is lower.

    As for contractors, yes absolutely there will be times where it is more cost effective to contract out. But that isn't what is actually happening. And the costs associated with contracting out overall, has historically been more expensive than if existing public servants did the work. Note I said existing. In the past PIPSC used to mention this. Lately they omit the word "existing". Also as I said in my prior post, contractors often meet the requirements as specified on paper, but in reality deliver a "solution" that under performs and needs more work (that never gets done).

    Now it was actually the Lieberals who were the ones who promised the unions the cut in outsourcing within the government sector to get their vote. The big bad conservatives decided it was cheaper for the taxpayer to outsource work and use contracts than just hire more expensive public servants who they knew once hired it is near impossible to get rid of them without the unions screaming blue murder over the loss of union due paying PS members.
    True. But the Conservatives were wrong. I sided with the Conservatives when they chose to eliminate severance pay because as a tax payer it didn't make sense to me to pay someone severance for retiring. Severance is something you get when you are let go (i.e. a private company is downsizing and they chose to pay severance). But the Conservatives have been wrong on other public service issues, outsourcing being one of them and sick leave being another. They tried to tell the public, in essence, that because there was a massive backlog of unused sick leave that there was a balance on the books owing. Well public servants sick leave is use it or lose it, there is no payout. The abusers simply needed to be reigned in by their managers (and the managers managers need to reign them in too). The overall system was not abused as evidenced by the mountain of banked leave.

    The union also claims outsourcing and contract employment is a travesty because it is a circumvention of superior federal employment standards of bilingualism, inclusiveness, and merit-based hiring with less transparency and accountability, fewer checks and balances and claim that Hiring delays and a cumbersome government employment process are sometimes blamed for departmentsí increased reliance on outsourcing just because the average hiring time for a federal public service position is only a measly 5.5 months.
    I can't blame departments for contracting due to hiring delays as I've seen the delays myself and in reality they stretch into years not months.

    PIPSC claim Canadians deserve the highest standards of government expertise possible, that only their unionised members can deliver. They (Canadians) deserve public services that are second-to-none, accountable, secure, cost effective, and transparent that only union dues paying PS members give.
    Well that sounds like union propaganda and it is, to a point. However as I've stated in my 13 year experience I've seen first hand that contractors deliver shoddy products with no support or maintenance after and the public at large suffers as the work being done that relies on the contractor's products suffers. The few contractor work that I've seen that was effective was from former employees who retired and then were re-hired as a contractor. But that is "double dipping" and the practice was effectively ended.
    Dictionary of the future:
    Global Warming was a popular computer simulation game,
    where the only way to win was not to play.

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