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  1. #1
    Senior Member M1917 Enfield's Avatar
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    Toronto Condo Market Deluged With Listings, In A Bad Sign For Investors

    I have a friend who bought a tiny one bedroom condo apartment for $680,000 on the 12th floor of a 23 level apartment building in downtown Toronto as an investment in October last year just before the CCP virus pandemic. His son moved into it as he was going to the university of Toronto which was walking distance away. He thought he was making a good investment decision and was saving money on rent for his son, well now with the classes closed and his son doing his courses online, he moved back home to Ottawa as he said it was miserable living in a tiny box apartment in downtown Toronto all day with all amenities and night clubs/bars closed.

    Anyhow I warned him at the time that he should just have is son rent while going to Uni but he was adamant that he was going to make a killing on this $680,000 new apartment "investment" and needed to get in while prices in Toronto were still "affordable". I tried to tell him to just invest in the stock market but he told me that was for mugs and you have a much better chance to get rich on housing in Toronto as he said the prices will always just keep go up there. He told me at the time that he had put offers on 6 apartments (all only slightly over asking price) and lost of every one as he was out bid so he was told by his agent to go higher and offered $80,000 over asking to get the one they finally did. Now he is panicking as he is starting to realize that he may have bought at the wrong time for way too much and may even have trouble renting it at a price that even covers all his costs!

    His Toronto apartment does not even have a good view as all you can see looking out from the small balcony is another huge grey apartment building across from it.





    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/...paign=trending


    Toronto Condo Market Deluged With Listings, In A Bad Sign For Investors

    The number of condos for sale has quadrupled in the space of a few months, and many more are on the way.


    If you’re looking to buy a condo in Toronto these days, you’ll be glad to hear you will have more to choose from than buyers ever had before. And there won’t be any need for bidding wars.

    But that might not be music to the ears of the city’s many investor-owners, who could see the value of their investments drop in the months ahead.

    With the COVID-19 pandemic severely reducing the demand for rental housing in cities, and all but killing off Airbnb rentals, Toronto’s supply of condos for sale has shot up to record highs over the past few months.

    The number of resale condos available in the City of Toronto more than quadrupled from around 1,500 before the pandemic to 6,455 in mid-October, the highest number ever recorded in the market. It has been climbing steeply upward from week to week.

    “I don’t know when this is going to stop. As long as it keeps going up, things are going to keep softening,” said Scott Ingram, a Toronto real estate agent with Century21, who flagged the new numbers in a Tweet this week.

    Ingram says the softening is concentrated particularly within the City of Toronto’s downtown core, while the outlying 905 region isn’t seeing quite the same supply shock. That makes sense, given that the downtown core is the most popular area for Airbnb rentals, as well as for students ― two parts of the market that have been hit particularly hard.

    And that doesn’t include newly-built condos, which are set to hit the market in record numbers over the next few years. The area has had a record of nearly 80,000 condo units under construction over the past year, according to analysts at Urbanation.

    Toronto had more cranes in the sky in the third quarter of this year than New York, L.A., Chicago and San Francisco combined, according to a recent survey from consultancy RLB.

    There were 124 cranes in Toronto, compared to 12 in New York, 41 in Los Angeles and 43 in Seattle, which has the second-highest count on the list.

    Toronto isn’t the only place where the supply of condos is soaring, though other cities aren’t seeing it to the same extent. Vancouver’s active listings were up 44 per cent in September, compared to a year earlier, while listings in Montreal grew a relatively modest 8 per cent.

    Single-family home supply shrinking

    That’s a far cry from what’s happening with single family homes, where the supply has been shrinking across the country and prices have been soaring at double-digit rates.

    Amid the ongoing pandemic, homebuyers are turning away from high-density inner-city housing towards suburbs and outlying areas. And those who already own homes in these areas don’t want to give them up.

    The supply of detached homes fell by nearly 27 per cent in Toronto in September, compared to a year earlier. Active listings were down 34 per cent in Montreal, though in Vancouver they rose 18 per cent.

    One factor to consider, “which has no historical precedent, is the value of one’s home during this time. Home has been our workplace, our kids’ schools, the gym, the park and more. Personal space is more important than ever,” said Shaun Cathcart, chief economist at the Canadian Real Estate Association (CREA), in a report Thursday.

    The tight supply ― combined with pent-up demand from the lockdowns and record-low interest rates ― has sent house prices soaring, with the average resale price of a home in Canada up 17.5 per cent from a year ago, CREA reported on Thursday.

    But the real estate economists say this can’t last, and the forecasts for the condo sector in particular are turning gloomy.

    Toronto condo prices to turn down: Re/Max

    In a report this week, real estate agency Re/Max declared that Toronto “condo prices, as well as rents, are expected to decline in the coming months.”

    It pointed the finger at the “collapse” of the Airbnb market, which has convinced many owners to either sell their units or rent them out in the long-term rental market ― where rents have been falling precipitously in recent months in many large cities in Canada.

    “Demand may be rising, but the supply could overwhelm consumer trends,” Re/Max said.

    “Rental rates falling are a major reason why supply is growing,” Ingram told HuffPost Canada. “You’ve got some investors cashing out, and to double down, you’ve got fewer investors who’ve been snapping these things up.”

    Ingram noted that, in recent years, many condo investors accepted negative cash flow (rents that didn’t cover their costs) because they expected price appreciation on their condos. Now many are beginning to realize that might not happen.

    “Now that price appreciation isn’t there it’s a different ballgame,” he said.

    “(Investors are) saying, ‘Oh wait a sec, there’s some risk in there.’... The risk is up in peoples’ faces a lot more now.”
    I live among lots of sheeple and dim witted who like to think they are good Canadians for voting Lieberal

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  3. #2
    The Gunsmithing Moderator blacksmithden's Avatar
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    Last fall when I was thinking of buying an investment rental here in Edmonton, you guys talked me out of it. Ive completely ignored prices and rental vacancy rates since then. Thank god I listened to you. Not because of whats happening in Toronto's market, but because of whats happening with Alberta's economy in general. My nerves wouldnt have taken it, and Ive done ok with stock market investments. Not spectacular, but ok.
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  5. #3
    Canadian ForcesMember Billythreefeathers's Avatar
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    china just pulled out,,,

    and will now launder it's money in North Korea

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    LB303 (10-18-2020)

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    Senior Member LB303's Avatar
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    ^^^ lol

    Seriously though, i've experienced condo life once, and that was enough.

    Paying a monthly premium that can rival a car payment for groundskeeping services is the real mug's game.
    Add to that a board of directors that's usually made up of fkn busybodies, and severe restrictions on how you can personalize something that's allegedly your property.

    The personal space issue was brought into full focus by that experience and will always trump other concerns for me.

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  9. #5
    The Gunsmithing Moderator blacksmithden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB303 View Post
    ^^^ lol

    Seriously though, i've experienced condo life once, and that was enough.

    Paying a monthly premium that can rival a car payment for groundskeeping services is the real mug's game.
    Add to that a board of directors that's usually made up of fkn busybodies, and severe restrictions on how you can personalize something that's allegedly your property.

    The personal space issue was brought into full focus by that experience and will always trump other concerns for me.
    I did the rental thing when I was younger. Never again. I'll live in my truck before I have a neighbor above/below me or on the other side of a wall. Living in the city is bad enough.
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  11. #6
    Untouchable FlyingHigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacksmithden View Post
    I did the rental thing when I was younger. Never again. I'll live in my truck before I have a neighbor above/below me or on the other side of a wall. Living in the city is bad enough.
    Same here. Buying a house was the best thing I ever did, even if just for the mental health and happiness aspect alone. The fact that it costs pretty much the same as renting a small duplex or large apartment is gravy . To rent my house would cost 50% - 75% more than I own it for.

    What makes less sense than renting to me are the people who buy mobile homes in trailer parks. I work with a couple of them and they tell me that they pay a lot fees on a lot they purchased and maintain but dont actually own, and property tax on land they don't technically own...
    I'd rather make a difference than a dollar.

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  13. #7
    Canadian ForcesMember Billythreefeathers's Avatar
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    I've got CASH,,

    waiting for the BUY call on a Calgary Condo,,,,

    6 to 8 months out or a bit longer ,,

    I can wait,,

    sellers not so much

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