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  1. #101
    Senior Member CLW .45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Enfield View Post
    I remember that, it worked!

    The simple minded of today just can't figure that out!
    Today’s mindset says that even the simplest of firearms are hellishly evil killing machines that can’t be used appropriately without being trained using inches thick manuals and close supervision by almost superhuman beings.

    And that attitude exists among firearms owners to a disgusting extent.

    Thus, support among the idiotic among us for prohibition of full autos and other firearms.
    Gun Control is about making it unlawful for you to use, carry, or possess a firearm.

    All restrictions/prohibitions on the use, carriage, or possession of firearms must be repealed.

    Middle ground?

    What middle ground?

  2. The Following 2 Users Like This Post By CLW .45

    Lee Enfield (01-13-2021), Smc (01-14-2021)

  3. #102
    Senior Member Strangeday's Avatar
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    Iím thinking HK P2000
    Calvin Martin, Q.C. 1933 - 2014

    I would like to apologize to anyone i have not offended. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.


  4. #103
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    Just saw a video on the Garand from CMP, they were showing the 7th round FTL issue. The tech manual was mighty thin and small, go figure.

    How is that possible? How did the average soldier use the Garand without a manual slightly smaller than a NY phone book? How did the average soldier use a AR with a instruction manual akin to a comic book? What has happened to demand a manual for something as simple as a semi auto handgun must be so complicated it takes countless $$ to be produced? Are the current instructors and upper brass so incompetent they are unable to properly instruct the common soldier?

    I do think this thread shows beyond any doubt just how incompetent the leadership of our current military is!

  5. #104
    Senior Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Keep proving your ignorance.

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post
    Keep proving your ignorance.
    Unfortunate for you that you are wrong.

    IF anyone needs more than what is in the owners manual for civilians/cops then it is obvious they took the short bus to school. Maybe they could make a comic book style for that type of user.
    Last edited by Lee Enfield; 01-14-2021 at 06:08 PM.

  7. #106
    Senior Member Doug_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Enfield View Post
    Unfortunate for you that you are wrong.

    IF anyone needs more than what is in the owners manual for civilians/cops then it is obvious they took the short bus to school. Maybe they could make a comic book style for that type of user.
    You keep making the same argument and keep ignoring what has been said about what is actually in the PAM vs what you think is in it. It's not helping you lol.
    Liberate Hong Kong, revolution of our times [#uc# you CCP!]

  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug_M View Post
    You keep making the same argument and keep ignoring what has been said about what is actually in the PAM vs what you think is in it. It's not helping you lol.
    You seems to not r4alize the original PAM is a waste of time and money. Our military is unable to save money obviously when doing anything and 50 MILLION for that quantity of handguns takes stupidity to new levels.

    As before if our CF hire people that can not understand simple instructions on the operation of a handgun then it is beyond obvious a house cleaning is needed STARTING AT THE TOP. Just because we did it "that way" before is no reason to keep doing something that makes no sense again and again. Or possibly that is the army way, they did look like a bunch of idiots in WWI before Currie took over and changed tactics at Vimy! Canadian officers under the command of the Brits sent countless to their guaranteed death using the same over the top charges time after time after time and no one thought that was was stupid?

    As the cop I know said, WTH do they want advanced sights on the gun as most couldn't hit anything even if they had them. I agree, just how many thousand of rounds does a "grunt" fire each year?

    The Glock with its regular manual would be the perfect replacement. IF NOT for God's sake don't let those who can't qualify near a knife while they attempt to peel spuds, the blood letting would be classic.
    Last edited by Lee Enfield; 01-14-2021 at 08:45 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #108
    Senior Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    I have sold equipment to 9 militaries around the world that I can think of right now. There might be more. Every one has required more paperwork, documentation and manuals than Canada. There are very good reasons why they all want this.

    The PAM is far more than an operator's manual. You have already been told this by several bona fide experts.

    Retail for a P320/M17 with the superfluous safety is $1000. The one with the optic mount is more, which is clearly what they really want. Mags are $80, so add a couple of those each. They have said want dots, probably for boarding parties/CSOR types mostly. Add $700 there. Add a spare parts kit for 40 years and a maintenance contract. The Canadian government (NOT just DND) has pissed off so many contractors over the years that they're not getting a break below retail.

  10. #109
    Senior Member stevebc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLW .45 View Post
    Today’s mindset says that even the simplest of firearms are hellishly evil killing machines that can’t be used appropriately without being trained using inches thick manuals and close supervision by almost superhuman beings.

    And that attitude exists among firearms owners to a disgusting extent.

    Thus, support among the idiotic among us for prohibition of full autos and other firearms.
    I've said for years that it is far easier to learn how to safely handle a firearm, than it is to learn to ride a bicycle.

  11. The Following User Liked This Post By stevebc

    Lee Enfield (Yesterday)

  12. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post
    I have sold equipment to 9 militaries around the world that I can think of right now. There might be more. Every one has required more paperwork, documentation and manuals than Canada. There are very good reasons why they all want this.

    The PAM is far more than an operator's manual. You have already been told this by several bona fide experts.

    Retail for a P320/M17 with the superfluous safety is $1000. The one with the optic mount is more, which is clearly what they really want. Mags are $80, so add a couple of those each. They have said want dots, probably for boarding parties/CSOR types mostly. Add $700 there. Add a spare parts kit for 40 years and a maintenance contract. The Canadian government (NOT just DND) has pissed off so many contractors over the years that they're not getting a break below retail.
    I know the PAM is far more than an operators manual, no need for everyone to have a small dictionary and again no handgun is that difficult to figure out how to fia. My coffee friend the retired head armourer for the mounties laughs about how complicated people make simple issues. He told me he visited every manufacturer they bought from and talked to the techs that do design and those that do repairs. NONE were using overly complicated manuals! Fixing usually is very simple and no one other than a tech should be doing some more complicated work and virtually nothing is that complicated.

    It was mentioned the manual shows how to load the gun, give me a break, if it takes more than one sentence and one picture that person probably missed the short bus most days.

    I along with others I know are tired of govt's wasting our money.

    I get it some are unable to change, complicating any process makes them feel like they are actually accomplishing something doesn't mean we should accept that.

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    stevebc (Today)

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