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  1. #1
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    C-71 analysis and summary by Guy Lavernge

    https://nfa.ca/nfa-executive-summary...-guy-lavergne/

    From the other site:
    Quote Originally Posted by 10x View Post
    For those who are not aware.
    Mr Lavergne is the lawyer who represented the NFA and ALL Canadian gun owners in the Quebec Court Challenge demanding the gun registry data from the federal government
    The points Mr. Lavergne presented to the Supreme Court won the case on behalf of the Federal government.

    Mr Lavergne is currently engaged in a challenge of the Quebec provincial registry for the NFA on behalf of ALL Canadian gun owners.

    Mr Lavergne has reconciled Bill C-71 ((2018) with all subsections of the Firearms Act (Chapter 39, Statutes of Canada) and has published the following comments:


    C-71 NFA EXECUTIVE SUMMARY AND ANALYSIS BY GUY LAVERGNE
    1. TRANSFERS OF NON-RESTRICTED FIREARMS
    a. All transfers must be approved by Registrar of firearms, through issuance of a reference number
    b. The Registrar confirms the validity of the Transferee’s licence and has power to verify whether a person “is still eligible” to hold a licence. Please note that the French version is inconsistent with the English version in this respect. Under the French version, the Registrar may only confirm that the Transferee holds a valid licence. Practically, and depending on which of the two versions prevails, this maymeans an ability to revisit the conditions that must be met to hold a licence, such as:
    i. Spousal consent;
    ii. Absence of history of violence;
    iii. Absence of mental health issues that are characterized by violence against oneself or others;
    iv. Other criteria usually considered upon initial issuance or renewal of a licence.

    • Criticism:
    o Recreates a back-door long gun registry, on a transfer by transfer basis;
    o Indeed, records of every request for a reference number (including denials and resons supporting same) will be kept by the Registrar.
    o Extensive resources will be invested into investigating every transferee, instead of focusing resources on individuals who represent a threat;
    o Delays in getting approval may encourage black market transactions;
    o Individuals who possess firearms without a licence will not be able to straighten out their situation or legally dispose of their firearms. Indeed, the Transferor is the only party who can apply for a “reference number”.
    This requires admitting to illegal possession. Without an amnesty program, this will encourage black market transactions.
    o Detrimental to the gun-show industry, unless reference numbers are obtained instantaneously.
    o Denials of reference numbers are not listed as decisions reviewable upon a reference under s. 74 of the Firearms Act. This likely means that judicial review in Federal Court (much more complex and expensive) could be the only available option.
    o A denial of a reference number by the Registrar (because in his opinion the Transferee is no longer “eligible”) could likely trigger a licence review by the CFO.
    o Failure to obtain a reference number may result in criminal prosecution under s. 101 of the Criminal Code (transfer without authority).

    2. AUTHORIZATIONS TO TRANSPORT RESTRICTED AND PROHIBITED (12(6) FIREARMS:
    a. Of all the ATTs that were automatically issued as “conditions attached to a licence” since Bill C-42 was passed, only the following two types survive:
    i. ATT to go to and from approved ranges within the province;
    ii. ATT to transport a newly acquired firearm to its usual place of storage.
    b. In all other instances, i.e gunsmith, gun show, appraisal, port of exit, etc… an old fashioned paper ATT must be applied for and obtained on a case by case basis;
    c. Automatic ATTs already issued are revoked, except those for going to and from approved ranges.

    • Criticism:
    o Clutters the system with paperwork and takes up resources that could be used to fight real crime;
    o Creates more potential “paper criminals”. People are going to be prosecuted after being caught with inadequate paperwork, when nothing morally reprehensible has occurred.

    3. BLACK RIFLES PROHIBITION AND RE-CLASSIFICATION:
    a. The power of the Government to downgrade the classification of a firearm (from Prohibited to restricted or non-restricted, and /or from restricted to non-restricted) is taken away;
    b. Any classification decision by the RCMP is final (subject to review by the courts). The RCMP cannot be overruled by the Government;
    c. The OICs passed to re-classify the CZ and Swiss Arms rifles further to the RCMP ban in 2015 are repealed. Those rifles are re-classified as prohibited;
    d. Individuals who possess those rifles are grandfathered, with significant limitations. . New prohibited classes are created: 12 (11) and 12 (14). However:
    i. If not already registered, those rifles must be registered bythe first anniversary of the “commencement day”, under pain of confiscation and criminal sanctions.
    ii. Those firearms may seemingly still be used for target shooting and competition, although old fashioned paper ATTs will have to be applied for. Note: Available ranges may be limited.
    e. Subsection (9) is added to Section 12 of the Firearms Act, enabling the grandfathering of new classes of “prescribed classes of prohibited firearms”. Corresponding amendments to s. 19 also contemplate that firearms of
    those “prescribed classes” may be transported to ranges.
    i. This could be a sign that other prohibitions are upcoming. The first thing that comes to mind is that AR-15s are soon going to become “prohibited” by way of OIC.

    • Criticism:
    o Opens the door to arbitrary actions by the RCMP.
    o The AR-15 is likely on the endangered species list.
    o Another fine example of quasi-expropriation without compensation.
    o In view of the decline in value associated with the prohibited status, some individuals may be tempted to sell on the black market, instead of registering their firearms as “prohibited”.

    4. FIREARMS PROHIBITION ORDERS
    a. Save and except when a judge so orders, prohibition orders will entail automatic forfeiture of all firearms to the Crown;

    • Criticism:
    o Confiscation of property without compensation;
    o Applies to all types of prohibition orders, even when no wrong has taken place (e.g. preventive orders for mental health issues)
    o Judicial discretion is granted, but no criteria are defined;
    o Those most vulnerable (mentally ill individuals) are least likely to fight and will be adversely affected.

    5. FIREARMS BUSINESSES:
    a. Registry of sales now mandatory;
    b. Registries open to inspection by police and CFO.
    6. Long Gun Registry Data
    a. Provisions that were part of Bill C-52 have been incorporated into this legislation:
    i. Repeals mandatory destruction of the long gun registry data;
    ii. Allows fulfillment of Access to Information applications (Bill Clennett and Information Commissioner litigation.)
    iii. Allows transfer of data to Quebec.

    • Criticism:
    Disregards privacy rights of firearms owners.

    7. AMENDMENT TO S.5 OF THE FIREARMS ACT (ISSUANCE AND RENEWAL OF LICENCES)
    a. Focus on the 5 year period preceding the application is removed.
    i. In truth, CFOs were already looking at prior events in deciding whether to issue, renew, or revoke licences.
    ii. Judges had validated that practice in deciding references under s. 74 of the Firearms Act.
    iii. There is a likelihood that the “prescribed form” for applying for a licence or renewal may be modified to reflect the amendment. Thus, an applicant for a new licence or licence renewal may have to declare all prior
    events, such as a depression that occurred 20 years before. This could ultimately be grounds for a denial.

    PDF – C-71 NFA Executive Summary and Analysis by Guy Lavergne

    A Copyright © Canada's National Firearms
    Pump actions speak louder than words

  2. The Following User Liked This Post By infidel29

    manic29 (04-16-2018)

  3. #2
    Senior Member LB303's Avatar
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    the short version, also from over there
    =bdft;14797312
    Registration leads to confiscation.
    Every. Single. Time.

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...les-scrap-sell

    Sound familiar?
    "If we had a vote tomorrow I would vote, once again, to keep the Registry..." - Justin Trudeau
    "... if Canadians are to trust their government, their government needs to trust Canadians." - Justin Trudeau

  4. The Following 4 Users Like This Post By LB303

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  5. #3
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    I concur with his position on AR's. They're going bye-bye. The libtards passed the buck to the RCMPestapo, knowing full well their state police would follow up and act accordingly.

    The stage is set for the RCMPestapo to take numerous different steps to remove them, including punting them into the 12(9) ban-bucket...and that was always the starting point of the entire C71 effort imo. Everything else is a slight of hand and distraction.

    And worse, most Canadians won't blink an eye when they do. Canadian's generally (the non-gun owner segment, which is the other 90% of the population) may hold tacit support for hunters and what they view as "hunting" weapons. However, they have little support for black guns.
    Last edited by Soph; 04-16-2018 at 07:50 AM.
    "The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life"

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Doug_M's Avatar
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    Only way for AR’s to go prohibited is for the Liberals to do so via OIC. That’s not “putting classification back in the hands of the RCMP” as Goodale has stated several times.

    If they get another majority in 2019 then they might do that. Depends on how close the election was.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Fight Bill C-71 by visiting http://oneclearvoice.ca now with new printable/editable versions
    An Open Letter to Canadian Gun Owners

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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug_M View Post
    Only way for AR’s to go prohibited is for the Liberals to do so via OIC. That’s not “putting classification back in the hands of the RCMP” as Goodale has stated several times.

    If they get another majority in 2019 then they might do that. Depends on how close the election was.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Or by repealing the previous OICs and letting the RCMP make up the classifications of all those guns and more however they see fit.

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    Soph (04-17-2018)

  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by manic29 View Post
    Or by repealing the previous OICs and letting the RCMP make up the classifications of all those guns and more however they see fit.
    If they repeal the OIC naming the AR restricted then all ARs with long enough barrels become non-restricted. There is no “variant” the RCMP can use and it isn’t a “converted auto”. No, if the AR is to be prohibited the only way would be for the government to name it such in an OIC.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Fight Bill C-71 by visiting http://oneclearvoice.ca now with new printable/editable versions
    An Open Letter to Canadian Gun Owners

  11. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by manic29 View Post
    Or by repealing the previous OICs and letting the RCMP make up the classifications of all those guns and more however they see fit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug_M View Post
    If they repeal the OIC naming the AR restricted then all ARs with long enough barrels become non-restricted. There is no “variant” the RCMP can use and it isn’t a “converted auto”. No, if the AR is to be prohibited the only way would be for the government to name it such in an OIC.
    Well, if they implement the “new” classification polysouvient alluded to (California style points) first, then non res ARs and a lot of stuff get pushed into restricted, then they drop the OICs. I.E. detachable mag and pistol grip/thumb hole stock is barely enough for restricted. So hunting rifles with mags stay non-res. RCMP plays with point values because they have the authority over it, and mission creep style, ARs become prohib. With most provinces having a registry within 7 years, RCMP start their own letter writing campaign to gun owners. Feds pay provinces their lost revenue from the registry fees as they take guns out of circulation (or a multiple thereof). No compensation, province keeps getting more money, so they go along. And the amount is a fraction of full buyout, at least on paper.

    Incremental, behind scenes changes are what go on. Multi year/election efforts at work.

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  13. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIR VEYOR View Post
    Well, if they implement the “new” classification polysouvient alluded to (California style points) first, then non res ARs and a lot of stuff get pushed into restricted, then they drop the OICs. I.E. detachable mag and pistol grip/thumb hole stock is barely enough for restricted. So hunting rifles with mags stay non-res. RCMP plays with point values because they have the authority over it, and mission creep style, ARs become prohib. With most provinces having a registry within 7 years, RCMP start their own letter writing campaign to gun owners. Feds pay provinces their lost revenue from the registry fees as they take guns out of circulation (or a multiple thereof). No compensation, province keeps getting more money, so they go along. And the amount is a fraction of full buyout, at least on paper.

    Incremental, behind scenes changes are what go on. Multi year/election efforts at work.
    This is a good example of what I was driving at re-AR's going bye bye.

    It's quite doable, more so since the Lib's have shown they are willing to write laws that specifically state laws that used to exist will be seen as to never have existed. One can get quite creative in how this will unfold.

    I still maintain it is their mandate, and I do not think they will wait until after the next election. On the contrary, I think they will evolve this fight into a battle about banning AR's. That's the fight they believe they can win (and they likely can, especially from an urban viewpoint). They know they will lose rural votes on any gun fight, and of course they must make that up with the urban voter. The best way to do that is ban the black guns (or handguns) as urban Canadians are not big supporters of those weapons in the hands of Joe Average...more so if the Libtards can keep the theme going on gun control that the problems in the US are Canada's problems to.

    C71 is step one in banning the black guns, and AR's/AK's specifically. That's the big picture plan imo.
    "The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life"

    -- Frank Zappa

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  15. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIR VEYOR View Post
    Well, if they implement the “new” classification polysouvient alluded to (California style points) first, then non res ARs and a lot of stuff get pushed into restricted, then they drop the OICs. I.E. detachable mag and pistol grip/thumb hole stock is barely enough for restricted. So hunting rifles with mags stay non-res. RCMP plays with point values because they have the authority over it, and mission creep style, ARs become prohib. With most provinces having a registry within 7 years, RCMP start their own letter writing campaign to gun owners. Feds pay provinces their lost revenue from the registry fees as they take guns out of circulation (or a multiple thereof). No compensation, province keeps getting more money, so they go along. And the amount is a fraction of full buyout, at least on paper.

    Incremental, behind scenes changes are what go on. Multi year/election efforts at work.
    There is nothing in the Firearms Act that supports this. Can't happen without another bill. C-71 certainly doesn't give them that ability. All C-71 does is remove the government's ability to down-classify as well as give the RCMP a wink and a nod that the government won't bat an eye when they mis-classify then next Blaze-47 similar .22 as an AK-47. There is nothing there that will allow them to start banning things that are already classified beyond what they already can do, which is variant, converted auto, or "easily made into full auto". That last one has some court precedent so if they did try that then we will have to organize a massive gofundme to pay for a legal challenge.
    Fight Bill C-71 by visiting http://oneclearvoice.ca now with new printable/editable versions
    An Open Letter to Canadian Gun Owners

  16. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug_M View Post
    There is nothing in the Firearms Act that supports this. Can't happen without another bill. C-71 certainly doesn't give them that ability.
    I fully agree. I just thought I’d join in on the long walk, short pier, conspiracy, Train derailment aspect of the thread.

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