Storage law question.

[CF_Smith]

My father and I have been disagreeing about the safe storage laws in Canada. Where the law for safe storage of restricted/prohibited firearms reads:

Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into; or
Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.
For automatic firearms, also remove the bolts or bolt carriers (if removable) and lock them in a separate room that is difficult to break into.

My father thinks you require a locking device on restricted/prohibited firearms even if they are in a safe. That is, he reads

Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired

as always being the case and you must also

lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into; or
Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.

However, I read it as

Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into

have to both be done UNLESS you

Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.

Thank you for the answer.

 

[harbl_the_cat]

Logically speaking, I think you are right. For order of operations AND joins the two immediate literal statements before any OR.

That said - it's a horribly written law and your best contacting a lawyer to try to make sense of it.

I think the liberal government logic behind this was if not stored in bomb shelter like safe/vault/room that took the rightful owner of the guns more than a few minutes to open if you have, it also needed a secure locking device

If it was in a container that could keep a child out but allow the rightful owner near immediate access - it wasn't enough and needed more measures to slow down the owner a few more seconds, you know, in case he had a fit of rage that overruled his sense of reasoning.

Evidently the libs in their twisted world view thought that was such a common practice - and instead of reaching for the nearest blunt object, a violent misogynist would immediately become a harmless, cuddly kitten because he has to open a stack on cabinet and remove a trigger lock.

Go figure...

 

[Wendell]

The police won't use the CFSC manual. The Crown won't use the CFSC manual. The Judge won't use the CFSC manual. Your first mistake is trying to use the CFSC manual instead of referencing the law itself.

STORAGE OF RESTRICTED FIREARMS

6. An individual may store a restricted firearm only if

(a) it is unloaded;

(b) it is

(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or

(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked; and

(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in

(i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or

(ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked.

STORAGE OF PROHIBITED FIREARMS

7. An individual may store a prohibited firearm only if

(a) it is unloaded;

(b) it is

(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, and, if the prohibited firearm is an automatic firearm that has a removable bolt or bolt-carrier, the bolt or bolt-carrier is removed and stored in a room that is different from the room in which the automatic firearm is stored, that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or

(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of prohibited firearms and that is kept securely locked; and

(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in

(i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or

(ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of prohibited firearms and that is kept securely locked.


<http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-209/index.html>

Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations (SOR/98-209)
<http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-209/index.html>

Firearms Act (S.C. 1995, c. 39)
<http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-11.6/index.html>

Justice Laws Website
<http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/>

 

[CF_Smith]

Though I was not using the CFSC Manual, but rather the RCMP webpage, I REALLY appreciate that Wendell! Two thumbs up!

 

[blacksmithden]

"or" - one or the other, but not both
"and" - both

Done.

 

[CF_Smith]

"or" - one or the other, but not both
"and" - both

Done.

That is what I was saying, his argument was it was x + (a or b) and not (x + a) or b. If that makes sense.

 

[RangeBob]

That is what I was saying, his argument was it was x + (a or b) and not (x + a) or b. If that makes sense.

x = trigger lock
a = cabinet
b = safe

 

[RangeBob]

CF_Smith:

And now for the fun part!

You get to tell him that a 'cabinet', does not exist any more:

Everyone should read and understand this decision.
http://firearmslaw.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Barnes-Reasons-for-Judgement.pdf

Print it out and keep in in your safe along with a copy of the storage regulations and the phone number of your legal insurance provider.

This is a Safe: http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/upright-metal-gun-cabinet-10-piece-0755652p.html

 

[SubVet49]

From the case referenced by "RangeBob", the following is interesting:

Within the context of Section 7 itself, it is apparent that Parliament considered a firearm stored in a "safe ..... that is securely locked" to be a more secure method of storage than a "container, receptacle ..... that is kept securely locked and is constructed so that it cannot be readily broken into or opened". This is evident from the fact that the guns stored pursuant to Section 7(b)(i) must be "rendered inoperable by a secure locking device" whereas the firearms stored in accordance within Section 7(b)(ii) have no such requirement.

Thus, the wording is clear, there are two types of storage:

1. Stored with a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room ..... (secure locking device required)
2. Stored in a vault, safe or room specifically constructed ..... (secure locking device not required)

 

[3MTA3]

So can I store safety cartridges on top of the safe?

 

[Zinilin]

So can I store safety cartridges on top of the safe?

Short answer: No.

You can store the cartridges in the safe with the firearm, either loose or in removable magazines for the firearms in the safe.
It is a good idea to have some ammo in the safe for each of the firearms in the safe, this mitigates the 'readily accessible' ammo that is stored close by.

 

[3MTA3]

I tend to think if the firearms are in the safe then they are separate.

 

[Zinilin]

I tend to think...

This thread is discussing The Firearms Act.

 

[topher]

I've always taken a receptacle to mean a gun case.. ie transport cases.. a secure locking device to be a cable, rod etc that locks the gun in a holder.. and a cabinet to be a display cabinet..
A safe being any metal cabinet that locks.

 

[Jay]

It is a good idea to have some ammo in the safe for each of the firearms in the safe, this mitigates the 'readily accessible' ammo that is stored close by.

This is gold.

 

[va2ir]

I may be going overboard in my situation. I have a JR Carbine in 9mm and a Glock 34. The JR is trigger locked and locked in my Crappy tire 8 gun "locker". The Glock is also trigger locked, pad locked in a pistol case, and locked in the same 8 gun locker. Triple locked LOL. I have my ammo in a strong metal tackle box from the 60s - it was my dad's - all metal and pad locked. The tackle box sits on top of the gun locker. I'm guessing this should be ok.

 

[Edenchef]

Sounds good to me, but then............you never know. You just have to love our "50 shades of gray" gun laws. Ammo box in another room maybe?

Cheers!

 

[Edenchef]

I have a new question about storage. I have just installed my new "bump in the night" gun safe, beside my bed. I understand that I may legally store a pistol in this safe, without a trigger lock, provided that the pistol is NOT loaded and that I may also legally store a loaded magazine, for it, in this safe along with the pistol. On a state continuum from loose ammo in the box through to a round in the chamber ready to fire; when does the pistol become loaded, from a legal perspective? Obviously, loading the magazine is ok, legally, since the loaded mag may be stored with the pistol, in the safe. If the magazine were in the pistol, but NOT locked home, is the pistol "loaded"? There are certainly examples where if the magazine is locked home, the firearm is considered "loaded". Just wondering? Opinions?

Cheers!

 

[RangeBob]

Edenchef:

Loaded is not defined in the Criminal Code.

Unloaded is defined in the regulations to the Firearms Act, SC 1995, c. 39:
“unloaded”, in respect of a firearm, means that any propellant, projectile or cartridge that can be discharged from the firearm is not contained in the breach or firing chamber of the firearm nor in the cartridge magazine attached to or inserted into the firearm.
This definition equally applies to s. 95
-- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadi...session_of_a_Restricted_or_Prohibited_Firearm

 

[Edenchef]

Thanks, RB. So, as I interpret this. The loaded mag may be in the safe, but not inserted into the pistol magwell. Cheers!