No More Rivets for Pmags!

[Marshall]

Ummm are you sure this is legal ? As in accepted by the Law? Cops are used to seeing rivets. I was just reading this :

http://blueline.ca/articles/purposiv...interpretation

This is a very good point... The court is not in the wrong here.
Here's another excerpt from Memorandum D19-13-2

56. A magazine is a device or container from which ammunition may be fed into the firing chamber of a firearm. This can be an internal or external component of the firearm. For CBSA purposes, any box, body or case of a disassembled magazine will be deemed a magazine, even if at the time of examination it does not contain a follower or spring.

Note that it says "for CBSA purposes". In this case the empty bodies were being imported with no internal parts installed, so that's where the problem arose. The law also states the all magazines must be limited in their capacity prior to import. If they were complete magazines blocked to five rounds there would not have been the issue.
The law also says that rivets must fit tightly and not be loose. This works okay in steel bodied magazines, but in polymer the rivets tend to work loose after use. Every time you load the mag the follower pushes against the rivet and elongates the hole slightly. I've seen some that are so loose after several hundred reloads you can fit six rounds in them and then you have a prohibited device without even realizing it.

[Edenchef]

I totally agree, sir. But try telling Ian T that he was legal.

[Marshall]

Thank you Marshall for elaborating on the legalities.

You're welcome!

[Marshall]

I'm sure the sarcasm smiley would get a lot of use in discussions such as this...

[DOOK]

So, just to be clear; an unaltered magazine body without parts is only illegal when you try to import it? As an unassembled magazine body already in Canada without a rivet, indent or other body attached blocking device, that is legal?

Wasn't there case law on this already? I do believe there was a guy trying to import bodies by themselves to be pinned in Canada. He was charged, and convicted. What is to stop someone from being charged with an unassembled magazine body that hasn't been modified to limit to 5 because a baseplate block is being used?

[Marshall]

So, just to be clear; an unaltered magazine body without parts is only illegal when you try to import it? As an unassembled magazine body already in Canada without a rivet, indent or other body attached blocking device, that is legal?

Wasn't there case law on this already? I do believe there was a guy trying to import bodies by themselves to be pinned in Canada. He was charged, and convicted. What is to stop someone from being charged with an unassembled magazine body that hasn't been modified to limit to 5 because a baseplate block is being used?

First let me clarify that I'm not a lawyer or a judge... but I do know what CBSA will and will not allow for import. As mentioned previously, we have had these magazines inspected by CBSA and there was no issue.

To the point of the question, one could certainly argue that the body alone could be considered prohibited as was the case when the referenced individual was charged and convicted of trying to import them. However, once the magazine is assembled it is no longer a prohibited device as it can be clearly demonstrated that it will not hold more than the specified five or ten rounds. The S&W M&P22 pistol is a good example of an allowable factory 10 round magazine which has an internal block. Only difference between that and ours is their block is easily removed by hand and needs no replacement parts in order to function with the block removed.

With that all said I suppose if you had the need or desire to transport the empty bodies it would be wise to add a rivet, but as long as they are assembled I see no reason for concern.

[short1]

Thank you again Marshall for navigating the minefield that is Canadian Firearms Law.

[ponymusic]

Yes, 20 rd pmag blocks are ready...
Working on the USGI blocks as well.

I would definitely be in for a dozen of these.

[ponymusic]

...
Working on the USGI blocks as well.

Any further information on this Marshall? Thank you.

[Battle Beaver]

For people like me who already have many (I have 8) Gen3 Pmags, will you be selling the internal block piece separately so I can get rid of my rivet and use these instead?

And before anyone asks, the fact that these new mags can be disassembled is awesome. During dis-assembly you'll have all the parts separated, and therefore the magazine body by itself. If I were to purchase 8 of the internal block pieces (assuming they're available separately), I'd have to remove the rivets in my existing mag bodies, thereby making them exactly the same as the NEW mag bodies that already come with the insert (mine would have a hold where the rivet was obviously).

Finally (again assuming you can/will sell the internal blocks), does anyone see any legal issues with doing this to your existing mags??

Thanks,
Battle Beaver

[RangeBob]

I do believe there was a guy trying to import bodies by themselves to be pinned in Canada. He was charged, and convicted.

R. v. Cancade, 2008/2011 BCCA
-- 2011 http://canlii.ca/t/fkfmh
-- 2008 http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/0...bcpc-336.shtml

[Marshall]

R. v. Cancade, 2008/2011 BCCA
-- 2011 http://canlii.ca/t/fkfmh
-- 2008 http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/0...bcpc-336.shtml

If we were take this case as a precedent, then all standard capacity magazines would need to be considered as prohibited devices. As I've mentioned in a previous post, the rivets can easily be removed with nothing more than a multi-tool in in far less time than it has taken me to type this. We just brought in another dozen Gen 2's with no issue at CBSA, so I have to believe that there were other mitigating circumstances surrounding this case.

[Marshall]

For people like me who already have many (I have 8) Gen3 Pmags, will you be selling the internal block piece separately so I can get rid of my rivet and use these instead?

And before anyone asks, the fact that these new mags can be disassembled is awesome. During dis-assembly you'll have all the parts separated, and therefore the magazine body by itself. If I were to purchase 8 of the internal block pieces (assuming they're available separately), I'd have to remove the rivets in my existing mag bodies, thereby making them exactly the same as the NEW mag bodies that already come with the insert (mine would have a hold where the rivet was obviously).

Finally (again assuming you can/will sell the internal blocks), does anyone see any legal issues with doing this to your existing mags??

Thanks,
Battle Beaver

I'm sure we can sell the blocks by themselves. Give me a few days to work out the price and get a page set up on our site. Once I have it figured out I'll post a link.
I see no legal issue with this, but apparently it would be ill advised to transport the empty bodies... and for what it's worth I suggest you dispose of the original base plate retainers after you replace them with the blocks since without the retainer it would be virtually impossible to assemble the magazines as standard capacity "prohibited" devices.

[Marshall]

Any further information on this Marshall? Thank you.

Hey, sorry for the delay on this. The 5/20 blocks are ready, but no word on the timing for the 5/30 ones. Truth is the guys we have working on it don't have any sense of urgency. We're discussing the possibility of making them ourselves, so I'll update on that front once we decide if that's a viable option.

[ponymusic]

Hey, sorry for the delay on this. The 5/20 blocks are ready, but no word on the timing for the 5/30 ones. Truth is the guys we have working on it don't have any sense of urgency. We're discussing the possibility of making them ourselves, so I'll update on that front once we decide if that's a viable option.

The 5/20 are what I am looking for, if these fit original Colt and US issue 20 round mags. The Colt mags (2) are are early 80's that came with my SP1 and the US mags (10) are Vietnam era surplus M16 mags. Thank you for your help Marshall. Take care.