.50 Beowulf Magazine Classification Update

[Foxer]

That's exactly where my head is at.

Its true but it's definitely not the fight to pick when the libs are in power. They would just 'close the rivet loophole' and demand we do something even more stupid.

[DanN]

Its true but it's definitely not the fight to pick when the libs are in power. They would just 'close the rivet loophole' and demand we do something even more stupid.

We know this fight is coming regardless; is there a way we can use this to gain momentum with the public before the libs start drafting laws?

[Foxer]

We know this fight is coming regardless; is there a way we can use this to gain momentum with the public before the libs start drafting laws?

well sure, there's always a way. It's usually a matter of resources and priorities - if we had endless money we could do it all

I think the main focus when it comes to the public is to try to get the message out that we're already under a huge amount of law and that it's getting unreasonable, and any additional laws are unreasonable and expensive and such. But we need to pick issues that they can understand in just a few sentences, and that it's harder to spin by the libs and anti's. For example - we can explain how much we have to go thru to own and shoot a handgun in under 30 seconds, and people will understand that. It will be fairly clear that adding more restrictions are pointless and that the libs are just fostering a culture of intolerance and division. But mag restrictions are more difficult - it takes time to explain the current laws and how they're limited by a pin and such, and the libs can easily counter with "ok, so we'll make it more than a pin" and " do you want a criminal to be able to shoot 5 people or 100? That's why we limit mags". And it's hard to counter that with people who's attention span is perhaps 10 seconds.

It might be even better to take a more general view and point out that Liberals already wasted 2 billion dollars going after gun owners to no benefit, and now they're at it again and it's all about division and intolerance. Why are they wasting money and resources going after us? That's something people can understand in a few seconds.

One of our most powerful points during the last time the libs were in power and grabbing guns was "You fight crime by going after the hells angels, not ducks unlimited". People got that in a second.

About 20 percent of the population knows something about guns and that gun laws like this are useless. About 20 percent are opposed to guns entirely and nothing we say or do will change that. In the middle there's the 60 percent who don't know and don't care about guns - but they are concerned about crime and getting shot and such so it's not hard to manipulate them into accepting more gun control as a 'good' thing UNLESS you can QUICKLY educate them otherwise. So the real solution is to attack gun control itself as being wasteful of money, unfair because it forces people to give up lawfully owned property that's never been misused, and divisive and intolerant.

The libs will only want to spend so much time on this and if there's no political benefit and it turns people off, they'll put in the minimum amount needed to keep their people happy. Unlike our side (which honks me off) their side will accept 'baby steps' and won't crucify them as long as they do SOME 'good', they don't need them to ban all guns. They're playing a long game. They'll hope he gets re-elected and they can do more later.

So if we poison the well, they won't go back to it very often. We should target 'gun control laws' in general as being bad and unnecessary, rather than too many specific exmaples. The specifics just take too long to explain and sell. You can definitely put some out there for people interested but the important thing is 'liberals - gun control - bad'.

[DanN]

We should target 'gun control laws' in general as being bad and unnecessary, rather than too many specific examples. The specifics just take too long to explain and sell. You can definitely put some out there for people interested but the important thing is 'liberals - gun control - bad'.

Yes, we need to do that.

But..

Remember the "50 things you'd be supporting if you vote for Harper" list? It was a terrible list because it was so vague about everything, but it was effective. This is the kind of thing that needs to go on a list like that of our own. I think we need to flood social media with as much information as possible to get the word out. It worked for them, maybe it can work for us.

Unlike them though, let's keep our information honest and truthful...

1. Banned .50 Beowulf magazines because they were adapted from another design instead of being designed from scratch.
2. Banned a Mossberg .22 rimfire rifle because it vaguely resembled another rifle they don't like.

[Foxer]

Yes, we need to do that.

But..

Remember the "50 things you'd be supporting if you vote for Harper" list? It was a terrible list because it was so vague about everything, but it was effective. This is the kind of thing that needs to go on a list like that of our own. I think we need to flood social media with as much information as possible to get the word out. It worked for them, maybe it can work for us.

Unlike them though, let's keep our information honest and truthful...

No, no i don't remember that But - i'll bet those '50 things' were all things people had some knowledge of. or at least an opinion about. We MUST remember that as hard as it is for us to believe the general public has NO knowledge about guns, other than that guns are often used in crime and can kill so they're a little concerned. But uncle bob had one for hunting so they can't be ALL bad.

That's largely what we've got to work with. The '50 things' idea can work within our community, there's a lot of people who have some knowlege but are not engaged in the fight and don't really care that much and that can bring them around. So - good idea for a commercial for wild tv, not so good for one to air during days of our lives.

THere's really three fronts we have to work on -

the "engaged" community who cares about this stuff, but who may be misinformed or have bought into the whole 'the cpc is evil' thing the NFA was selling. Those people need to be educated and brought onside for the upcoming fight, and detail is important.


The 'disengaged' community - casual gun owners and/or hunters who know a little but don't really care enough to get into the fight. THey need to be educated and encouraged to get involved in a positive manner.

The 'not our community' average person who knows nothing, and just needs to be educated on the most basic concepts because they won't spend the time to learn more. (they are the majority)

The messages we put out there have to be tailored for the appropriate audience.

[RangeBob]

from elsewhere

One thing I can't wrap my head around is the fact that there are .50 Beowulf uppers and they are not prohibited. So how are you supposed to feed them?

The mags that only have the floor plate stamped or have writing on the side could totally be seen as questionable. The P.C.V. .50 mags are clearly purpose built for .50 bea. Molded plastic with a cut out for the .50 rounds in the body, not curved to aid in feeding .223 ammo.

[Booletsnotreactwell]

The 'disengaged' community - casual gun owners and/or hunters who know a little but don't really care enough to get into the fight.

I can't believe you just said that.

[RangeBob]

from elsewhere

AS PER TONY BERNARDO OF THE CSSA NOVEMBER 18TH 11:55AM

THE BEOWULF IS NOT OFFICIALLY BANNED

So talking to Tony, 'cause he called me for something else...what timing!

It was one letter sent to one importer regarding one shipment.
It is NOT an official announcement at this time.
What the future holds, as with anything else is unknown.

Hope this helps a little.

Christine Scott
Regional Director Coordinator
CSSA
www.cssa-cila.org

[Drache]

from elsewhere

Well that is interesting...

[kennymo]

Well that is interesting...

I've read the same thing from several other sources 'elsewhere' saying the same thing....it's gonna get interesting....

[RangeBob]

Lots of people talking about pinning their Beowulf mags.

[Edenchef]

What I have personally found is the concept that these are massive seizures of legally purchased private property, without recourse and without compensation, by the whim of an unelected, unaccountable, nameless bureaucrat; generates a very positive response with non-gun folks. IMHO, it is because they can see this happening to them too, for something else. Most are totally shocked to find that we have no rights to own private property in Canada.

[RangeBob]

from elsewhere (this is post 88), but a bit more official

CSSA Communique re: Beowulf Magazines

Despite some recent social media surrounding Beowulf magazines, the CSSA is confirming that no ban on the sale of these magazine in Canada has been issued by the R.C.M.P. or the Minister of Public Safety at this time.

All six 50 Beowulf firearms FRT numbers remain listed as legal with a five round capacity and retailers should continue to sell this product at this time:

A recent letter from the R.C.M.P. addressed to ###### Armoury in response to a denial of their International Import Certificate for these magazines was shared via social media and has caused widespread speculation that the magazines themselves have been banned. This was a private letter to one company regarding one shipment, not a Special Bulletin.

The CSSA continues to work with the office of the Minister of Public Safety regarding this issue and will release further updates as needed.

EDIT
also from
here
http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/show...343#post311343

[RangeBob]

What I have personally found is the concept that these are massive seizures of legally purchased private property, without recourse and without compensation, by the whim of an unelected, unaccountable, nameless bureaucrat; generates a very positive response with non-gun folks. IMHO, it is because they can see this happening to them too, for something else. Most are totally shocked to find that we have no rights to own private property in Canada.

There's that (private property, compensation),
there's also the rest of your firearms being seized and destroyed because you've breached an indictable criminal code offence,
and the risk of jail,
which in turn means a loss of job, income, retirement and college education, and divorce.

[Trickle Charge]

from elsewhere (this is post 88), but a bit more official



EDIT
also from
here
http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/show...343#post311343

Can we get the FRT numbers with their classifications sheet and should we drag them around with us like all the rest of the paperwork that we bring with us?