newbie with pal, was embarrassed to talk at gun shop

[akimiski]

From my first post, you can tell I am newbie, just got my PAL and went to Cabelas to look at firearms to buy and I have to admit I was bit embarrassed. I am not yet familiar with all the brands and terminology the employee was using when referencing to ammo and firearms and two customers tried to help me by saying things like "Don't buy plastic guns, it's going to be hard to find parts of an Italian gun, get a bigger barrel wall to help with heat so you don't have to wait long between shots, buy mil spec firearm"

I have a few questions and hoping I can get some help here and build some confidence:

1) where is the best place to so start and get familiar with all the guns, types, do can I tell what's cheap and won't last long vs what's going to be more reliable. (Forums, Youtube firearm reviews etc.)

I want to buy a shotgun (thinking pump action) and a rifle (bolt action). I want something that's going to be 1) accurate 2) best built quality and 3) has lots of easily available options to upgrade (looking to keep what I buy forever instead of regret and looking to sell in 6 months to upgrade)

- what I want to do with them: skeet shooting, join a club and target practice at a range and deer hunting (white tail/Elk)

- I am leaning towards: 590A1 Magpul (because its mil spec) and 700 Milspec 5R 6.5 creedmore (because it's a got a good barrel and lots of good reviews)

please feel free to comment and let me know i am off the track about this firearms

[stevebc]

Welcome aboard, akimiski.

1) you've come to that "best place". Start clicking on threads, and feel free to ask questions.

2) I'm not a shotgun guy, but I do own a clone of a Remington 870. I'd suggest either an 870, or a Mossberg 500 series. Simple and reliable.

3) MilSpec: military specification. Not always necessary, and often just a marketing gimmick. Can't help you on the Rem 700 or 6.5 Creedmore, but you may want to price out the difference between the cost of 6.5 Creedmore, and other cartridges, say, Winchester .308. Ammo costs are significant. So much so, you may at some point want to consider reloading or handloading, ie, buying the components, and making your own. (Forget that for now, it's likely too much for you at this stage)

You don't have to answer, but if we knew the province you live in, we could recommend ranges, gun stores, etc.

There are no stupid questions. "Ask, and ye shall receive." Again, welcome aboard!

[Petamocto]

I wish I lived close to you so I could invite you over, because these are the sorts of questions that can’t be easily answered by text on message boards.

They require hours and hours of conversations and getting out to see things. If anything, you need someone really knowledgeable to go with you to Cabela’s or another big gun store to lay everything out in front of you to see and touch.

Online reviews and pics are not reliable, for example, all 9mm handguns may look high quality online, but see them all in person and a Ruger SR9 will look like garbage, a Glock will look okay, a Walther will look great, and a CZ will look amazing.

Rifles and shotguns are the same, in that anything less than $500 will likely be junk, getting closer to $1000 is getting nicer, and amazing rifles are generally $2000+ with some exceptions.

Even then, you still have to go hold them yourself to know what you like. Something like an SKS may sound good on paper, then you pick the thing up and realize it has the worst (straight) grip angle that feels terrible for your wrist.

I wish you the best of luck. Make some friend in a gun club or something, and you’ll find that they’re generally helpful people.

[FALover]

First of all, welcome to the GOC forums.
Second, do not feel embarrassed, most big box sporting goods stores employ sales staff that likely have never handled any of the wares they hawk in the field. Best you ask around, meet up with folks who will let you have a go with their firearms. A box of ammo is a small price to pay for getting hands on experience.

[barkerlakebob]

First of all, welcome to the GOC forums.
Second, do not feel embarrassed, most big box sporting goods stores employ sales staff that likely have never handled any of the wares they hawk in the field. Best you ask around, meet up with folks who will let you have a go with their firearms. A box of ammo is a small price to pay for getting hands on experience.

good advice - take it !!

[R&R Rancher]

First welcome to the forum and the sport.

There are a few of us shotgun people on here. First please define what you consider “skeet shooting”. Informal pasture clays or actual gun club clay targets? Without knowing that we can’t give you any detailed advice.

I looked up a Mossberg 590A1 Magpul and from the specs I saw, it’s not a good fit for either definition of “skeet shooting”. A 20” fixed cylinder choke barrel with rifle sights will be a significant handicap. Milspec in this part of the sport means nothing. You’re going to want a longer barrel, possibly screw in chokes and bead sights. Shooting a moving target means locking your eyes on the target and letting hand eye coordination do the work. You should see the rib and bead as a blur in the foreground.

If you truly want to try out the clay target games, contact your nearest club. Explain your situation. Ask if they rent guns. Ask if you could have an experienced member mentor you your first trip out. Most likely someone will be happy to introduce you to the sport and get you off on the right foot. If you live, or are going to be in,Manitoba next spring when our club reopens for the summer I will gladly take you myself

As for the rifle stuff, I bow to the members here who have far more experience in that arena than I

[blacksmithden]

For pump action shotguns, the guys have named the common go-to ones. Remington went out of business, and as far as I know nobody has picked up the shotguns stuff so they aren't making 870's right now. There's a crap ton of them in the used market through. They're a very reliable gun. The Mossberg 590 series is Mossberg's answer to the Reminton 870. I've had really good reports on the Maverik 88s as well. There's tons of aftermarket options for the 870s and the 590s. If you want to get into higher end stuff, look at brands like Benelli. Not as many aftermarket add ons for those, but they make damned nice guns.

Bolt action....oh boy. That's a loaded question. There are a LOT of good options out there. Don't worry about staying away from "plastic" guns. The polymer stock world is upon us, and there's nothing wrong with most of them. If you want to get into the nicer hunting rifles, look at stuff like Tikka and Browning. That said, there aren't a lot of "crappy" rifles out there. Again, don't worry about "plastic" stocks. I've got plenty of wood and plenty of plastic. They both hold up fine, and the critter you're shooting at doesn't give a dam what it's made of.

[Camo tung]

For pump action shotguns, the guys have named the common go-to ones. Remington went out of business, and as far as I know nobody has picked up the shotguns stuff so they aren't making 870's right now. There's a crap ton of them in the used market through. They're a very reliable gun. The Mossberg 590 series is Mossberg's answer to the Reminton 870. I've had really good reports on the Maverik 88s as well. There's tons of aftermarket options for the 870s and the 590s. If you want to get into higher end stuff, look at brands like Benelli. Not as many aftermarket add ons for those, but they make damned nice guns.

Bolt action....oh boy. That's a loaded question. There are a LOT of good options out there. Don't worry about staying away from "plastic" guns. The polymer stock world is upon us, and there's nothing wrong with most of them. If you want to get into the nicer hunting rifles, look at stuff like Tikka and Browning. That said, there aren't a lot of "crappy" rifles out there. Again, don't worry about "plastic" stocks. I've got plenty of wood and plenty of plastic. They both hold up fine, and the critter you're shooting at doesn't give a dam what it's made of.

And don't forget that at one time "Mil-spec" was synonymous with "low government bidder".

[Swingerguy]

Welcome to the forum.
There are plenty of intelligent people on here willing to impart on you their wisdom.
Keep asking questions and give it some time for people to answer.
I don't have much to add about which guns to look at, it really depends on how much $ you want to spend.
For relatively inexpensive rifles, I have had great luck with Savage.

In my experience the folks that work in smaller local gun stores are willing to help and answer questions.
Good luck and have fun with the experiences of shopping for your first rifle and shotgun.

[akimiski]

Welcome aboard, akimiski.

1) you've come to that "best place". Start clicking on threads, and feel free to ask questions.

2) I'm not a shotgun guy, but I do own a clone of a Remington 870. I'd suggest either an 870, or a Mossberg 500 series. Simple and reliable.

3) MilSpec: military specification. Not always necessary, and often just a marketing gimmick. Can't help you on the Rem 700 or 6.5 Creedmore, but you may want to price out the difference between the cost of 6.5 Creedmore, and other cartridges, say, Winchester .308. Ammo costs are significant. So much so, you may at some point want to consider reloading or handloading, ie, buying the components, and making your own. (Forget that for now, it's likely too much for you at this stage)

You don't have to answer, but if we knew the province you live in, we could recommend ranges, gun stores, etc.

There are no stupid questions. "Ask, and ye shall receive." Again, welcome aboard!

thank you, plan go through as many posts here as I can. thanks for the tip regarding mil spec. I am in Ontario so any range recommendations would be super helpful. PAL without practice is no use.

[akimiski]

I wish I lived close to you so I could invite you over, because these are the sorts of questions that can’t be easily answered by text on message boards.

They require hours and hours of conversations and getting out to see things. If anything, you need someone really knowledgeable to go with you to Cabela’s or another big gun store to lay everything out in front of you to see and touch.

Online reviews and pics are not reliable, for example, all 9mm handguns may look high quality online, but see them all in person and a Ruger SR9 will look like garbage, a Glock will look okay, a Walther will look great, and a CZ will look amazing.

Rifles and shotguns are the same, in that anything less than $500 will likely be junk, getting closer to $1000 is getting nicer, and amazing rifles are generally $2000+ with some exceptions.

Even then, you still have to go hold them yourself to know what you like. Something like an SKS may sound good on paper, then you pick the thing up and realize it has the worst (straight) grip angle that feels terrible for your wrist.

I wish you the best of luck. Make some friend in a gun club or something, and you’ll find that they’re generally helpful people.

thanks, I have started to find store around Toronto and have started to visit them to see/hold the firearms and yes I am not looking to buy the cheapest one, wants something durable that will last me a long time and willing to pay for that.

[wai556]

Is there a range around your area that you can "rent" a gun ?
I know it is quite expensive to pay like $10 for 3 rounds of shotgun slugs/buck shots, but it will let you have some hands on the different type of weapons and that might give you some idea on what you want.
There are a few "types" of shotgun, combat/tactical, hunting, sports shooting (skeet/trap etc) and it is best you decide on what you want to do before you buy. Like some had point out, a Mossberg 590 is probably not the best skeet or trap gun.

[MKivSupra]

don't give the cabela's guys too much credit. there's a good chance they don't know much more than you do

[murph83]

There are no stupid questions. Keep it simple, stick to the more common calibers 22lr, 223, 243, 270, 308, 3006. These calibers are easy to find at can. tire and walmart. Budget friendly guns( savage axis, tikka t3 etc) will kill deer, moose and elk just as well as the expensive guns. Don't over think this stuff, have fun and welcome the club.

[akimiski]

as a matter of fact, two customers at the store were giving me better tips than the store employee who was trying to stick to showing me what I asked to be pulled from the cabinet and answering only the questions I had. chatting to owners is best so will be looking for those opportunities.