Time taken to issue club level ATT?

[Shalimar]

Sure OK-This is not done by most clubs , just so they can push more paper and volunteer more hours or suffer abuse by members- It is done by request of the Ontario CFO-
Go try to get an ATT in Ontario with out belonging to a club or taking the so called "ATT" Course. The CFO has made this a requirement of clubs in ON. Is it Possible to get without a club membership and course?- Yes ;-Easy?-

Definitely not.

I guess this one way they try to ensure this- rightly or wrongly.

I and others like Cyclone have.. why do you think there was court cases and we WON...

The CFO cannot make it a requirement since there is no basis in law for them to try to do such. Again this has been done in court and wyatt has had to eat his own words on the stand more than once.

Also now with all the attention over this Blaney is acting.. not enough IMHO.. but he is at least getting off his ass and ATTs soon will be removed from the CFOs entirely.

 

[Shalimar]

Also- there is regulation that requires safety training for range use;

True,.. but the actual course is at the discretion of the club not the CFO. Hence why the club can exempt anyone they wish and the CFO cannot say squat about it. (Trust me I've done it)

This can be simple or more involved but it required whether a ATT is needed or not.

Also;

very true and it does vary depending on the club.. but IMO that is how it should be.. the club is whom you deal with and it is up to them and/or their BOD to decide what they want for a course etc etc. No idiotic oversight by the CFO ever needed

 

[3MTA3]

Well actually the course is specified by the CFO' office-

..Successfully completed a club level handgun safety course that meets the minimum training and testing standards prescribed in the CSSA, CFI ,CQB or equivalent club level safety course. All have shown a responsible attitude and behavior towards the care, handling and use of firearms and are hereby recommended by the executive of said club to have their authorizations to transport issued..

-From the form submitted by clubs to the ministry

 

[Shalimar]

Well actually the course is specified by the CFO' office-

-From the form submitted by clubs to the ministry

The CFO's can quote that til the cows come home.. but it is not law. Hence why there is no cohesive course (nor should there be if any CFO/CFC is in charge).. it is upto the particular club what they decide is what they want.

As for the CSSA, CFI, CQB etc,.. all courses are different and again shows how there is no "law" in this regards.. much to the dismay of wyatt and his ilk whom continue to spread myths and lies in this regard.


Also of note.. " are hereby recommended by the executive of said club to have their authorizations to transport issued.."

This has nothing in law to back it up since an ATT has to do with transport laws not use laws and they are mutually exclusive and cannot nor should not be confused (as per established legal prescient)

Once again more myths and lies that sadly are all too commonly spread and even more sadly believed.

 

[Billythreefeathers]

Here's hoping that the ATT dies a quick death as part of the new licensing laws.

Absolutely no need for an extra piece of paper nor any of the extra BS from the CFO office.

 

[3MTA3]

Authorizations to
Transport Restricted
Firearms and Prohibited
Firearms Regulations

SOR/98-206

ATT's are covered by a specific regulation, not the Storage display and transport regs.

Hey, like I said-Go try to get an ATT in Ontario with out belonging to a club or taking the so called "ATT" Course. The CFO has made this a requirement of clubs in ON. Is it Possible to get without a club membership and course?- Yes
;-Easy?-Definitely not.
The courses were put in place by the former OHA I believe, so gun-owners are in fact partially responsible if that is indeed the case.
For the average Joe or Joeline this is the way it works, and not too many clubs are going to buck it, or they may risk closer scrutiny.

 

[3MTA3]

Here's hoping that the ATT dies a quick death as part of the new licensing laws.

Absolutely no need for an extra piece of paper nor any of the extra BS from the CFO office.

From what I understand, the ATT will not be going away, it may just be mererly taking the form of a condition attached to a license- but I am not sure, maybe someone else has some comments regarding this? I believe the law is set up this way already;

3. An authorization to transport that takes the form of
a condition attached to a licence must
(a) identify all of the firearms to which the authorization
to transport applies; and
(b) specify
(i) the period for which the authorization to transport
is issued,
(ii) the places between which the firearms to which
it applies may be transported, and
(iii) the reasons for which the firearms may be
transported between the specified places.

 

[Shalimar]

Authorizations to
Transport Restricted
Firearms and Prohibited
Firearms Regulations

SOR/98-206

ATT's are covered by a specific regulation, not the Storage display and transport regs.

Hey, like I said-Go try to get an ATT in Ontario with out belonging to a club or taking the so called "ATT" Course. The CFO has made this a requirement of clubs in ON. Is it Possible to get without a club membership and course?- Yes
;-Easy?-Definitely not.
The courses were put in place by the former OHA I believe, so gun-owners are in fact partially responsible if that is indeed the case.
For the average Joe or Joeline this is the way it works, and not too many clubs are going to buck it, or they may risk closer scrutiny.

Very true... but bear in mind that the only way it will get to be easy instead of the CFO's ever tightening BS is by people doing as I and a few others have and fight back.. do not do so is in essence helping the CFOs

 

[Shalimar]

From what I understand, the ATT will not be going away, it may just be mererly taking the form of a condition attached to a license- but I am not sure, maybe someone else has some comments regarding this? I believe the law is set up this way already;

Same here.. though we have not seen any of the proposed legislation yet. Therefore before it's drafted we must ALL speak up and demand it be eliminated 100000% since it does absolutely zero good and is constantly abused by the CFOs to persecute those whom have done nothing wrong. It should never have existed in the first place.

 

[riderrick]

so is it a club rule or cfo rule, the club applying for the att? here in bc I just faxed proof of membership to the cfo to get my att. not that I liked having to prove it but I needed membership to shoot so what the heck....it is the only place to shoot in my area.

 

[Shalimar]

so is it a club rule or cfo rule, the club applying for the att? here in bc I just faxed proof of membership to the cfo to get my att. not that I liked having to prove it but I needed membership to shoot so what the heck....it is the only place to shoot in my area.

it's a CFO "policy" which is not enforceable period. Though some club out there might have some moronic version of it on their own.. if they do they are not worth it flat out and tell them so.

And remember you did not have to prove anything.. membership is not required by law and that is what matters.

 

[Haywire1]

Somehing to point out. The regulation states an att THAT TAKES THE FORM OF A CONDITION ATTACHED TO A LICENSE must blah blah blah. If the att is part of the license, then it doesn't take the form of an attached condition. (Sorry for the caps am on my phone)

 

[Shalimar]

Somehing to point out. The regulation states an att THAT TAKES THE FORM OF A CONDITION ATTACHED TO A LICENSE must blah blah blah. If the att is part of the license, then it doesn't take the form of an attached condition. (Sorry for the caps am on my phone)

It does indeed but not in the method you are most likely thinking.. but more like if you get a change on your DL they put a sticker on it and give you a piece of paper til a new one is made and arrives in the mail.

ATTs however all require possession of the license at the same time and a new license is not issued everytime etc... therefore until it is changed that part of the regulation is in essence a moot point since there is no ATT attatched by default.

 

[Haywire1]

However the way the wording is implies there are other forms an att may take other than an attached condition.

 

[Shalimar]

However the way the wording is implies there are other forms an att may take other than an attached condition.

There are but those fall into the ATC classification as well as those that do not need an att such as executors of an estate do not need an att or even a license to transport the firearms of the person in questions estate.

Suffice to say it's as usual a very poorly worded piece of legislation. (all of c-17 and 68 are for that matter)

 

[Gunny_Guns]

When I bought my first restricted the transfer took longer than the time it took to get my ATT!

Edit:

Just noticed the Ontario part

 

[Shalimar]

When I bought my first restricted the transfer took longer than the time it took to get my ATT!

Edit:

Just noticed the Bantario part

Corrected for you

and sadly it's country wide with such lunacy..

 

[Petamocto]

It all depends on how willing your club rep is to keep making phone calls.

Using normal mail or e-mail allows them to keep putting you on the backburner.

As soon as your get them on the phone for one-on-one communication, it brings your file from the bottom of the pile to the top.

After I took the test at my range, it was pushing two weeks with not hearing anything, so my range guy made the phone call and I had the file e-mailed to him then me right away.

 

[Shalimar]

It all depends on how willing your club rep is to keep making phone calls.

Using normal mail or e-mail allows them to keep putting you on the backburner.

As soon as your get them on the phone for one-on-one communication, it brings your file from the bottom of the pile to the top.

After I took the test at my range, it was pushing two weeks with not hearing anything, so my range guy made the phone call and I had the file e-mailed to him then me right away.

Assuming those that are applying for such fail to understand they do not need the club rep to get such at all. The ATT is issued from the CFC/CFO to the RPAL holder.. the club legally has no part of that process and anyone can apply for their own w/o help from any club.

 

[Petamocto]

1. Thank you for not failing to live up to my expectation of you that you must try to start a fight in every thread.

2. It is not that the club rep has the authority to give you the ATT, but they are a good source to keep the pressure on the CFO to see where the application is in the process. In my experience, my calls effectively saying "Where is my LT-ATT?" did not get very far, but right after my club rep called, they seemed to be more willing to help out quickly.