newbie with pal, was embarrassed to talk at gun shop

[akimiski]

don't give the cabela's guys too much credit. there's a good chance they don't know much more than you do

as a matter of fact, two customers at the store were giving me better tips than the store employee who was trying to stick to showing me what I asked to be pulled from the cabinet and answering only the questions I had. chatting to owners is best so will be looking for those opportunities.

[akimiski]

There are no stupid questions. Keep it simple, stick to the more common calibers 22lr, 223, 243, 270, 308, 3006. These calibers are easy to find at can. tire and walmart. Budget friendly guns( savage axis, tikka t3 etc) will kill deer, moose and elk just as well as the expensive guns. Don't over think this stuff, have fun and welcome the club.

today I looked at Tikka T3X and liked the feel, I am thinking I am going to go for it, maybe with 308 or 6.5 creed more (for the recoil and long range accuracy) since I will be looking for practice on the range with that (once I am able to find a range and secure a spot for membership), every range I looked it are at full capacity in Ontario around GTA.

For the shotgun, can anyone help me determine f I should be looking for pump action first or just get the semi auto? primarily use will be target practice, secondary use would be hunting

[akimiski]

Is there a range around your area that you can "rent" a gun ?
I know it is quite expensive to pay like $10 for 3 rounds of shotgun slugs/buck shots, but it will let you have some hands on the different type of weapons and that might give you some idea on what you want.
There are a few "types" of shotgun, combat/tactical, hunting, sports shooting (skeet/trap etc) and it is best you decide on what you want to do before you buy. Like some had point out, a Mossberg 590 is probably not the best skeet or trap gun.

thanks for the tips, all ranges I searched around Toronto are membership only and there seems to be wait time and they all seems to state that you have to bring your own firearm. I will keep looking but if anyone has any range suggestions then please feel free to share.

[blacksmithden]

today I looked at Tikka T3X and liked the feel, I am thinking I am going to go for it, maybe with 308 or 6.5 creed more (for the recoil and long range accuracy) since I will be looking for practice on the range with that (once I am able to find a range and secure a spot for membership), every range I looked it are at full capacity in Ontario around GTA.

For the shotgun, can anyone help me determine f I should be looking for pump action first or just get the semi auto? primarily use will be target practice, secondary use would be hunting

Its up to you. Just be aware that some semi auto shotguns dont always cycle with some light loads. You'll never have that problem with a pump action. I have a semi auto but I find I shoot my Remington 870 pump 99% of the time. Its just what Im used to.

[akimiski]

Its up to you. Just be aware that some semi auto shotguns dont always cycle with some light loads. You'll never have that problem with a pump action. I have a semi auto but I find I shoot my Remington 870 pump 99% of the time. Its just what Im used to.

that's what I have been reading as well, as it's going to be my first shotgun, I am going to go with pump action, likely Benelli SuperNova with telescopic stock.

[awndray]

Try it before you buy it. You may think you want a Lamborghini, but a Corvette might suit you better.

[Rory McCanuck]

that's what I have been reading as well, as it's going to be my first shotgun, I am going to go with pump action, likely Benelli SuperNova with telescopic stock.

A 'tactical' stock will almost always have considerably more felt recoil than a traditional stock.

With all of these guns, find one that fits you; pick a spot on the wall and bring the gun up. If the sights line up on the spot you picked, you will find you have much more success.

[akimiski]

A 'tactical' stock will almost always have considerably more felt recoil than a traditional stock.

With all of these guns, find one that fits you; pick a spot on the wall and bring the gun up. If the sights line up on the spot you picked, you will find you have much more success.

Didn’t know about recoil, thanks for that tip.

[harbl_the_cat]

Welcome to the forum and the sport.

I'll add a general nugget of info that applies with EVERY discipline of shooting you get into:

Whatever your budget is, buy the most inexpensive gun you can to do the kind of shooting you want to, and spend the bulk of your money on ammo and practice.

I'm quite serious about reloading and "practical" marksmanship, and currently I'm running 2x Mossberg MVP Patrol Rifle's in .223 and 1x Ruger American Predator in .223.

I also have a Remington 700 SPS Tactical and Savage Model 10 TR both in .308.

Nothing there is particularly high end, but with the right load, I can consistently land 1.5-2 MOA groups and hit a 20" plate at 500 meters with all 5 of those guns (I've yet to shoot further with the .308's - but I'm confident I could do it).

I won't win any competitions with that level of performance, but I can get a LOT of data and practice all the important skills of rifle marksmanship with those capabilities (my frame of reference is as a former Canadian Army Small Arms Training range operator).

I'd say any 1 of those are perfect builds for a new rifle shooters to learn the basics of rifle marksmanship.

If I were new into the sport, I'd have picked just 1, it's a toss up between either the Ruger AP or the Mossberg MVP if I just wanted to learn rifle marksmanship... it's too much of a toss up with my .308's for hunting... although I also have a Marlin XL7 I bought and never really shot that would probably be a better hunting rifle than either the Remington 700 or the Savage 10 TR.

To just my .223's I have reloading components to load about 10k rounds (my 300 yard "Plinking loads" and 500 yard "Precision loads").

To my .308's, I only have enough reloading components to load about 1500 such loads, so I'm spending more of my time trying to source more large rifle components so I can load and shoot more.

I have a personal reloaders philosophy of: "For every plinking round I load to shoot, I want to load and save 2 to shoot 20 years in the future" (It's 1:1 for my precision rounds).

(One thing to note, though is a .223 is too underpowered for most big game hunting - but I'm more interested in target shooting than hunting, and shooting/reloading .223 is more inexpensive compared to shooting/reloading a .308, which itself is pretty cheap among other large rifle calibers.)

[akimiski]

Welcome to the forum and the sport.

I'll add a general nugget of info that applies with EVERY discipline of shooting you get into:

Whatever your budget is, buy the most inexpensive gun you can to do the kind of shooting you want to, and spend the bulk of your money on ammo and practice.

I'm quite serious about reloading and "practical" marksmanship, and currently I'm running 2x Mossberg MVP Patrol Rifle's in .223 and 1x Ruger American Predator in .223.

I also have a Remington 700 SPS Tactical and Savage Model 10 TR both in .308.

Nothing there is particularly high end, but with the right load, I can consistently land 1.5-2 MOA groups and hit a 20" plate at 500 meters with all 5 of those guns (I've yet to shoot further with the .308's - but I'm confident I could do it).

I won't win any competitions with that level of performance, but I can get a LOT of data and practice all the important skills of rifle marksmanship with those capabilities (my frame of reference is as a former Canadian Army Small Arms Training range operator).

I'd say any 1 of those are perfect builds for a new rifle shooters to learn the basics of rifle marksmanship.

If I were new into the sport, I'd have picked just 1, it's a toss up between either the Ruger AP or the Mossberg MVP if I just wanted to learn rifle marksmanship... it's too much of a toss up with my .308's for hunting... although I also have a Marlin XL7 I bought and never really shot that would probably be a better hunting rifle than either the Remington 700 or the Savage 10 TR.

To just my .223's I have reloading components to load about 10k rounds (my 300 yard "Plinking loads" and 500 yard "Precision loads").

To my .308's, I only have enough reloading components to load about 1500 such loads, so I'm spending more of my time trying to source more large rifle components so I can load and shoot more.

I have a personal reloaders philosophy of: "For every plinking round I load to shoot, I want to load and save 2 to shoot 20 years in the future" (It's 1:1 for my precision rounds).

(One thing to note, though is a .223 is too underpowered for most big game hunting - but I'm more interested in target shooting than hunting, and shooting/reloading .223 is more inexpensive compared to shooting/reloading a .308, which itself is pretty cheap among other large rifle calibers.)

Thanks for the tip in bold there, i am sure rest of the details you shared will eventually sink in

Once question: should I go with 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor and why? (Keeping aside minor difference in pricing and availability, is there a reason to buy .308 instead of 6.5 for target practice (100y, 300y, 500y) and for some light hunting (white tail/Elk)

[Rory McCanuck]

I have a 6.5CM, and I quite like it, but it's a target gun.
The fellows at the LGS (Local Gun Shop) passed on many reports of deer getting hit with the Creedmoor and walking away.
I'm a big fan of the 6.5x55 Swede, and it's probably killed more moose than any other gun, but I'm not sure that there's really much difference that an animal will notice.
So, take that for what it's worth...

Welcome to the world of firearms where things don't always make sense, and people can have very firm convictions based on nothing more than 'I have one, so it must be the best ever.'

[harbl_the_cat]

Thanks for the tip in bold there, i am sure rest of the details you shared will eventually sink in

Once question: should I go with 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor and why? (Keeping aside minor difference in pricing and availability, is there a reason to buy .308 instead of 6.5 for target practice (100y, 300y, 500y) and for some light hunting (white tail/Elk)

I've heard 6.5 CM gives better long range ballistics and less felt recoil than a .308, but a 6.5 typically runs smaller bullets - which means less killing power and less of a "ping" on steel.

I also almost NEVER find 6.5 CM brass on the range - my guess is everyone who shots it reloads it, whereas .308 brass is much more common.

I'd say I find 20-50x as much reloadable .308 brass than I do 6.5cm.

As Canadians, that's a VERY important factor to take into account as well: ammo availability, because it's not uncommon for some calibers of ammunition to be unavailable (or in very low supplies) for years at a time.

That's why a lot of guys reload (myself included) - because we've lived through ammo shortages and it's not fun.

For the better part of the past 15 years it usually happens when an American Democratic is president.

[awndray]

.308 will be easier to find on the shelves at your LGS. If you go hunting and you forget your ammo at home, finding .308 will be easier.

If you're looking for a dual-purpose rifle (target/hunting) beware of the barrel profile. You probably don't want to be lugging around a bull barrel on a deer or moose hunt.

You mentioned Elk. 22 tags available last year. I wish you the best of luck, but make sure you get your shooting shorted out first. You don't want to miss that shot.

[stevebc]

Another vote for .308, because unless you're shooting at VERY long distances, .308 will do all that 6.5C will do. As mentioned, it's easier to find, and usually cheaper, too.

And good advice on the barrel profile, which points up the difference between a hunting rifle and target rifle. Neither works well in the other discipline.

That's not say you can't shoot your scoped hunting rifle out to great distances, but you aren't going to be competitive with it. And as mentioned, you won't want to haul an F-class rifle into the bush to go hunting. Well, not more than once.

And getting back to cost- I don't know your budget, but with even .308 running at about $2.50 per round (quick grab from Cabelas and 150gr bullets, and there were a lot more pricey options), just think about the cost:

BANG (there goes $2.50) BANG (again) BANG (hmmm) BANG (well there goes 10 bucks)... Put it this way: when you do shoot that stuff off, SAVE YOUR BRASS, because you'll either stop shooting completely, or start rolling your own. Brass can be used many times.


There's a reason why so many are taking up rimfire: cost.

[harbl_the_cat]

Another vote for .308, because unless you're shooting at VERY long distances, .308 will do all that 6.5C will do. As mentioned, it's easier to find, and usually cheaper, too.

And good advice on the barrel profile, which points up the difference between a hunting rifle and target rifle. Neither works well in the other discipline.

That's not say you can't shoot your scoped hunting rifle out to great distances, but you aren't going to be competitive with it. And as mentioned, you won't want to haul an F-class rifle into the bush to go hunting. Well, not more than once.

And getting back to cost- I don't know your budget, but with even .308 running at about $2.50 per round (quick grab from Cabelas and 150gr bullets, and there were a lot more pricey options), just think about the cost:

BANG (there goes $2.50) BANG (again) BANG (hmmm) BANG (well there goes 10 bucks)... Put it this way: when you do shoot that stuff off, SAVE YOUR BRASS, because you'll either stop shooting completely, or start rolling your own. Brass can be used many times.


There's a reason why so many are taking up rimfire: cost.

.308... because it's what all the old guys shoot, lol...