newbie with pal, was embarrassed to talk at gun shop

[Grimlock]

.308... because it's what all the old guys shoot, lol...

Neither of us can shoot well enough to notice the difference between .308 and 6.5 CM. And you can buy it in the Canadian Tire in Kenora. The old guys actually shoot 30-06.

If you're new to shooting, why not buy a .22 LR? Way cheaper to shoot. Less distance to walk to your targets. You'll pay for the rifle in ammo cost before you get any good.

[Aniest]

First: this is amazingly simple and good information:

There are no stupid questions. Keep it simple, stick to the more common calibers 22lr, 223, 243, 270, 308, 3006. These calibers are easy to find at can. tire and walmart. Budget friendly guns( savage axis, tikka t3 etc) will kill deer, moose and elk just as well as the expensive guns. Don't over think this stuff, have fun and welcome the club.

Second, you were right on track here, but I suggest a 700 MilSpec in .308Win, as your first thoughts on the durability and use of the pump and bolt action are good:

I want to buy a shotgun (thinking pump action) and a rifle (bolt action). I want something that's going to be 1) accurate 2) best built quality and 3) has lots of easily available options to upgrade (looking to keep what I buy forever instead of regret and looking to sell in 6 months to upgrade)

- I am leaning towards: 590 and 700 Milspec (because it's a got a good barrel and lots of good reviews)

I can tell you from hands on real world experience with looking at harvesting game, from small white tail deer to moose & elk, the .308Win outperforms the 6.5 Creedmoor by a little bit. That's just my mileage, as yours might vary. That is also using the 6.5 and .308 calibres to their advantages: 6.5 for deer on open prairies and 308 for everything. Just everything. I carry a .308Win, where legal (not in parks) with hand loaded 220 grain Sierra round nose bullets should a bear or other animal be a threat against my life.

EDIT - Number one tip when doing scopes and mount: Don't let anyone mount the scope too high. You need proper cheek weld to be a good shooter when hunting. Any large diameter scope (like bigger than 42mm objective), in my opinion, requires a cheek rest adapter, riser, pad or something. Again, advice is worth what it is... free.

- - - -

Now, shotguns are something different. The plastic adjustable stocks are great if you plan to share it with those of different body sizes than you, or want to get a combo gun with both the long choked barrel as well as a very short barrel. The basic Mossberg pump shotguns, with both barrel sets, are great and no gun owner should be without one.

When you get into wood stocked guns there is non-adjustable measurements, a slew of them. In a rifle a lot of the time using scope bases and rings can adjust how to aim a rifle to fit you. A shotgun does this by these non-changeable measurements. Fit of a wood stock shotgun is paramount. Here is a good guide for you to read some time: https://www.theyorkshiregent.com/sho...e-fit-shotgun/

The super shortened explanation: a solid stock (plastic, fibre glass, composite or wood) is best, and unless you are a very generic person trying out, swinging and mounting the gun to your shoulder is mandatory. The top two things that keep me in a store trying, trying and trying out over and over again is: second, buying shoes... and first, buying a shotgun.

- - - -

So, you will get lots of advice. Most gun owners buy a few, sell a few, and learn their likes and dislikes. Your gut instinct went with the 590: my opinion, is a good choice. Your first instinct was the 700: my opinion, that's a good choice too.

Oh, By the way: big disclaimer. Cause this is great advice too:

Neither of us can shoot well enough to notice the difference between .308 and 6.5 CM. And you can buy it in the Canadian Tire in Kenora. The old guys actually shoot 30-06.

If you're new to shooting, why not buy a .22 LR? Way cheaper to shoot. Less distance to walk to your targets. You'll pay for the rifle in ammo cost before you get any good.

[akimiski]

Thank you for all you above, .308 is what I am going to get (due to all the reasons you have mentioned able plus I looked at the Ontario Rifle Association where I can make use of the military ranges and they ask for 308) I am going to get it in Tikka T3X Lite Stainless Steel, that looked and felt good in hands. I do want to be able to use for hunting deer so that should work.

For shotgun, it’s going to be Benelli Supernova 28 inch (comfort grip instead of telescopic tactical) so I can use it for skeet and target practice

[ESnel]

Go to https://mapleseedrifleman.com/ get on their mailing list and sign up for a shooting clinic in your are when it's offered. Although it revolves around shooting a .22 EVERYTHING that you will learm translate to to all your other shooting.

Look at getting a .22 as it's a great training tool and a lot of fun.

I believe that the .308( I own several 6.5s) is a more versitile bullet in that there are more avalible options( especially if you don't reload... yet) It's a great hunting round(chosing correct bullet for the game) and for target shooting, by the time you've maxed out the range on the .308 for target shoot you'll have a bunch of experience under your belt.

[akimiski]

I didn’t know about tags for Elks, reading up on that now…thanks.

[akimiski]

What’s the cost different between buying ammo vs reloading yourself? 25% saving or 50% or 75%?

[awndray]

That depends on how much you value your time.

Typically, you don't reload for the sole purpose of saving money. Have a look at the reloading section. Prices have obviously changed since those threads were started, but you'll find the information you need. If you're just getting started, your chances of saving any amount of money at all at this point are slim to none. If you want to get into reloading, make sure it's because you're looking for a new hobby and/or you want to load a specific caliber to specific characteristics for a specific purpose. Otherwise, you'll be doing it for the wrong reason.

[harbl_the_cat]

What’s the cost different between buying ammo vs reloading yourself? 25% saving or 50% or 75%?

For me to reload .223, I bought most of my components 5-10 years ago when you could get primers for $2/100, bullets for $0.09, and powder for $20/lbs.

Components keep indefinitely if you store them somewhat properly, so does ammo...

So for me to load 1000 rounds of .223, what I paid for my stockpiled components costs me about $180.

I know my loads are equal quality to factory loads that are about $750 per 1000 rounds today.

So for me, the cost savings of reloading are something like 75% but that's just because I've waited VERY long before reloading components I've diligently stored away over the years.

That's the neat part about reloading. If you had the intention of doing it and got everything you needed to do it, the longer you put off doing it, the more rewarding it becomes... both financially and as a hobby...

[ESnel]

I think the mind set of reloading simply to save money leads to reloading becoming a chore. If it's a chore then time is money becomes a big factor but IMHO then you're reloading for the wrong reason

My journey into reloading started when it looked like ammo was looking to get scarce( it happens almost on cycle and around the time of US elections). What I discovered was I enjoyed it and found it relaxing, it allowed me to create specific loads to the firearm and application, I got a better understanding of how firearms function( bulet weights,shapes,rifling) and my groups got smaller along with accuracy increace.The cost savings does happen especially in the larger calibers and less popular ones.


I think if you have a lot going on and reloading is a rushed event or a chore then time is money and you probably don't have time or an additional hobby. Reloading is a hobby and when you start looking at your other hobbies on a time cost basis... guess what it's not a hobby

[Swingerguy]

I enjoy many aspects of reloading, like shutting out everything else and concentrating on the task at hand, I enjoy the precision that goes along with trying to make more and more accurate loads, i also like having components to be able to load up some bullets when non-reloaders are trying to find ammo.
I also enjoy the fact that I can make a loaded round of 9mm for around $0.20 each (I haven't had to buy components in a while) vs around $0,70 each for relatively inexpensive factory ammo.
The above cost doesn't take into account any of my reloading equipment, of which there is a lot, and they don't give that stuff away. By the time you pay for the equipment needed you could have bought alot of factory ammo. I'm not trying to dissuade you from getting into reloading because it is a great hobby, just make sure you really enjoy shooting enough and actually shoot enough to warrant the cost.

There are ways to lower equipment cost, such as buying used, most of the more expensive things don't easily wear out.

[Smc]

You might not save money now reloading, but you can make more accurate ammo (With lots of time/learning/experimentation). Like harbl mentioned, the price of stuff only goes up so if you buy components now, you save later and have more accurate ammo. I have enough components to make at least a couple of thousand rounds of each of the calibers I shoot. And I’ll shoot it at 1/5 of the cost of factory ammo now. Also, the factory ammo and/or components might not be around when you need it in a few years.

[Aniest]

What’s the cost different between buying ammo vs reloading yourself? 25% saving or 50% or 75%?

For me, tailoring the ammunition to the firearm and the animal hunted has always been the primary reason. I shoot 125grain, 168grain and 220 grain Sierra bullets hand loaded from the same .308 rifle and scope. It took a few years to get the right combination of primers, powders, bullet crimp and bullet seating depth to get the same windage (left-right) point of aim from every one. The 125grain and 168grain are about 1 MOA, while the 220 grain is about 6 MOA, but the 220's are for under 50 yard shots only.

Which mean my second reason for hand loading: a unique, challenging and rewarding hobby could be practiced.

Lastly has been cost. Reloading to save money is for when you are shooting a lot, in my opinion. A very lot. But that also requires the initial money to pay for expensive progressive presses that put you a half step below a small commercial reloading business. Calibers for competitions out of semi-automatic firearms like 12guage, 223, 308, 9mm, and a few other handgun calibers are the main ones, where you're expected weekend of competition (friendly and up to Pro) is 200 rounds of 12guage, 200 rounds of rifle and 400 rounds of handgun. Go to 6 competitions in a year and 6000 rounds of ammo gets expensive.

[harbl_the_cat]

There's another dimension to reloading nobody mentions but everyone thinks about... the usefulness of reloading as a skill in the event of TEOTWAWKI... which for those of us who have been into guns and reloading for a while... has just happened.

The idea being if there was every a truly apocalyptic "end of the world" kind of scenario, reloading would be one of the most valuable skills to have - especially if the grid fails and supply chains collapse.

That was one thing I hadn't considered pre-COVID: having something to do when you're board as TSHTF.

One of the things that kept me sane during the lockdowns and vaccine mandates was reloading... especially case prep.

When you're not allowed to go out and do anything because you're not vaccinated, sorting 50k pieces of .223 brass by headstamp is a really good way to pass the time.

I spent as much time just sorting brass as most people did watching Netflix, YouTube or going on TikTok during the lockdowns... It was time very well spent.

[Rory McCanuck]

What’s the cost different between buying ammo vs reloading yourself? 25% saving or 50% or 75%?

This was quite a while ago, but I got a Lee kit on sale for $100.
I got components to make 100 rounds for another $100.
Store bought was costing me $2 a shot, so when I was through the box of bullets and primers, the equipment had paid for itself, and I still had about 1/3 of a pound of powder left.
Then I decided I really enjoyed reloading, and went pretty stupid buying equipment.
If I 'save' much more, I'll be living out of a cardboard box.

The biggest thing was, it got me out shooting.
When all you have is a box of ammo, you don't want to go shooting because then you'll be out.
Now, when I shoot everything up, I get to go to the reloading bench and play Mad Scientist.


*I just checked Cabela's.
The Lee kit is on for $200 now, and the ammo I was shooting isn't even available (444 Marlin) but the same ammo is available in 45-70 (very similar)
$90 for a box of 20
So, the math still works out to about the same ratio, just with a whole bunch more dollars involved.

[Smc]

Heh yeah I started with a lee loadmaster kit that came with 45 acp and 223 dies and 100 of each bullet. $200 USD for the lot. X-mas deal south of the border. On the way back I declared it and they waved me through! I thought the projectiles would cause a stir but apparently not (at least that one time).